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Thread: When local business post no weapons

  1. #51
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    Folks can do what they want but I personally would NOT rely on a cop for legal advice. I would want to research and find the actual factual black letter laws... ALL the laws that are pertinent whether they be gun laws or other laws (even drunk driving laws can affect a person's carry permit)... and if I had any questions or confusion about what those laws meant and how the penalties involved might apply to me I would see an attorney.

    The penalties for a screw up... even a well intentioned screw up... are just too expensive/important to leave it to some cop's advice.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

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  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Folks can do what they want but I personally would NOT rely on a cop for legal advice....
    --snip--
    .....to leave it to some cop's advice.
    Point taken but even though I'm not trying to make excuses for my advice I was given, he didn't say using a carried gun in a gun free zone would or wouldn't be without penalty. He never specified and I never took it that way at all. I just took it for what it was worth as he was just pretty much telling me that before I used my gun if I was in a place like that to think about possible consequences, hence the whole, carried out by six or judged by twelve part.

    He was right about the one thing though, which was the myth about guns being legal in commercial vehicles.

    But yes, it's definitely worth looking into but as I said, I really don't think something insignificant as a trespassing charge, even multiple charges is enough to worry about having your permit revoked in Oklahoma since this a fairly friendly gun state.

  4. #53
    I took two CFP classes in two different states from two different cop-instructors.

    They were both pretty good and knew what they were talking about.

    The first one was a lot like Massad Ayoob and firmly adhered to his doctrine of observe and report while you protect yourself.

    The second one wanted to be Rambo however. Naturally I adhere to the teachings of the first one more rather than the second.

    The only place that I don't take my gun with me is where they have metal detectors like in the Federal buildings.

    In my state the schools are not gun-free zones like elsewhere. I suspect some of the teachers also carry here.

    Everyone is very wary in the Rockies after Columbine.

    And also at the movies after Aurora.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    Point taken but even though I'm not trying to make excuses for my advice I was given, he didn't say using a carried gun in a gun free zone would or wouldn't be without penalty. He never specified and I never took it that way at all. I just took it for what it was worth as he was just pretty much telling me that before I used my gun if I was in a place like that to think about possible consequences, hence the whole, carried out by six or judged by twelve part.

    He was right about the one thing though, which was the myth about guns being legal in commercial vehicles.

    But yes, it's definitely worth looking into but as I said, I really don't think something insignificant as a trespassing charge, even multiple charges is enough to worry about having your permit revoked in Oklahoma since this a fairly friendly gun state.
    It isn't whether I, or you, or anyone, thinks a trespassing charge is insignificant or not. What matters is whether trespassing is classified as a misdemeanor offense in Oklahoma. If it is then it would count as a disqualifier for a carry permit under:

    https://www.ok.gov/osbi/Handgun_Lice..._FAQs.html#Q38

    From Oklahoma's own government website Frequently Asked Questions...

    8. What if I’ve been arrested?
    -snip-
    You can also be denied if you have significant character defects evidenced by a misdemeanor criminal record indicating habitual criminal activity.-snip-

    And to anyone reading this:
    Please check into ALL the laws, not just gun laws, in your state and any state that you intend to visit that might affect your carry permit. Laws like trespass, drunk driving, disorderly conduct, even some traffic offenses might have an impact.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  6. #55

    When local business post no weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    It isn't whether I, or you, or anyone, thinks a trespassing charge is insignificant or not. What matters is whether trespassing is classified as a misdemeanor offense in Oklahoma. If it is then it would count as a disqualifier for a carry permit under:

    https://www.ok.gov/osbi/Handgun_Lice..._FAQs.html#Q38

    From Oklahoma's own government website Frequently Asked Questions...

    8. What if I’ve been arrested?
    -snip-
    You can also be denied if you have significant character defects evidenced by a misdemeanor criminal record indicating habitual criminal activity.-snip-

    And to anyone reading this:
    Please check into ALL the laws, not just gun laws, in your state and any state that you intend to visit that might affect your carry permit. Laws like trespass, drunk driving, disorderly conduct, even some traffic offenses might have an impact.
    The only thing I can found without actually calling someone about trespassing penalties in Oklahoma is here, which is a Muskogee-based website. I Am Charged with Criminal Trespass in Oklahoma: Now What Do I Do? | Muskogee Attorney | (918) 913-0725 | Wirth Law Office

    I would imagine that trespassing is considered the same throughout the state.

    Penalties-

    Penalties can be stiff for trespassing violations. You could face a fine of up to $250 and 10 days of jail time for a first offense, and a fine of up to $500 and 20 days of jail time for a second offense.

    For a third offense, you could face up to $2,500 in fines and up to six months in jail.

    Furthermore, if you entered the property illegally and stole something or caused other harm to the property, you may be fined up to $500 and jailed for up to 30 days.

    Generally, trespassing crimes in Muskogee are misdemeanor offenses.
    According to this website, Open and Concealed Gun Carry Laws in Oklahoma | Criminal Law only certain misdemeanors are significant enough to at least disqualify you from obtaining a permit, anyways. I would imagine that for the specific misdemeanor charges that could affect your qualifications to obtain a permit would probably come back to haunt you whenever it came time to renew unless it was serious enough of a crime for the OSBI to revoke it as soon as they hear about it.

    People Who May Not Carry a Gun

    Oklahoma’s laws forbid the following individuals from possessing a firearm:

    • people convicted of committing a felony, or subject to an outstanding felony warrant

    people convicted of certain misdemeanor crimes involving assault and battery, stalking, domestic abuse, or illegal drug use or possession

    • minors adjudicated as delinquent; and minors in general if not involved in hunting, hunting safety classes, target shooting, or other authorized activities

    • people adjudicated as mentally incompetent or of unsound mind within the last ten years

    • people currently undergoing treatments for a mental illness, condition, or disorder as diagnosed by a licensed physician, which impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to meet the ordinary demands of life

    • anyone with a misdemeanor criminal record that indicates habitual criminal activity, and

    • anyone who acquires a concealed carry license through fraud (including false or misleading statements on the application).

  7. #56
    You sure don't want to get convicted of a misdemeanor or a felony.

    A traffic infraction is the worst thing that you should ever let yourself get caught doing.

    Even so, I do my best to avoid any infractions as well.

    My state does not have a criminal misdemeanor trespassing statute like yours does.

    In my state they can only ask you to leave, at which time you must go.

    If you do not go then the police will come to arrest you, and that constitutes a criminal trespass.

  8. #57

    When local business post no weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    You sure don't want to get convicted of a misdemeanor or a felony.

    A traffic infraction is the worst thing that you should ever let yourself get caught doing.

    Even so, I do my best to avoid any infractions as well.
    I don't want to get convicted of anything either, I was just stating that it appears to me that trespassing isn't considered the type of misdemeanor that carries a possibility of disqualification to a carry permit.

    My state does not have a criminal misdemeanor trespassing statute like yours does.

    In my state they can only ask you to leave, at which time you must go.

    If you do not go then the police will come to arrest you, and that constitutes a criminal trespass.
    Soo, without looking up Colorado law, what is it classified as if you get charged with trespassing? Just criminal trespass or what?

    As is here, the only time it's considered chargeable trespass is if you don't leave when asked to and are still around when the po-po shows up to slap the stainless steel bracelets on ya.

  9. Here in God's country the signs don't carry the weight of the law. Meaning if for some reason you get found out, they ask you to leave, and if you leave all is well.

    It is wise if asked to leave private property that you do so anyway.

    Schools are by law no carry and then there are the Federal Buildings, and from what I understand that includes the post office.

    My question is for the poor folks that live in states where a posted sign DOES carry the weight of the law. If you get "caught" do you or are you likely to loose your permit to carry? Also is this the case should you get caught in a federal building with a firearm?
    I would assume that at the least it would make background checks a little trickier?

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagullplayer View Post
    Here in God's country the signs don't carry the weight of the law. Meaning if for some reason you get found out, they ask you to leave, and if you leave all is well.

    It is wise if asked to leave private property that you do so anyway.

    Schools are by law no carry and then there are the Federal Buildings, and from what I understand that includes the post office.

    My question is for the poor folks that live in states where a posted sign DOES carry the weight of the law. If you get "caught" do you or are you likely to loose your permit to carry? Also is this the case should you get caught in a federal building with a firearm?
    I would assume that at the least it would make background checks a little trickier?
    Just curious... as I cited and linked to in post #38 as to how it works in Michigan where the no guns sign has the weight of trespassing law and the no guns sign in and of itself constitutes notice of trespass and trespass could impact a Michigan carry permit do the no guns signs in God's country have the weight of trespass law behind them and does the sign also work as notification or is it a requirement of law that a person must first be asked to leave?

    Also, is being convicted of trespass (misdemeanor?) one of the criteria that could disqualify a person for a carry permit in God's country?

  11. Bikenut:
    You must be asked to leave and then refuse to leave...

    As for your second question I can not answer with any confidence.
    I wonder if such a case has been brought to court.
    A wise man when asked to leave, will.
    And most businesses would not want to press changes if you just agree to not return.

    Now when its a Federal law broken, I would think that's a different ball game all together. That was my question, would you loose your permit if found out on Federal property?

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