When To Pull and or Shoot - Page 12
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Thread: When To Pull and or Shoot

  1. Quote Originally Posted by seagullplayer View Post
    You have the right idea. But in the bus situation it was too far gone for talking.
    Once he drug the bus driver out of the seat, it became something different.

    I wouldn't interfere with two drunks in a bar, they are mutual participants.
    But when one person is clearly the victim such as the bus driver, I couldn't sleep at night if I thought I could help and didn't.
    Apparently the old dude with the cane thought the same way.
    This is the point of the thread. Do I guard the gun and not help or do I do what I believe to be right and step in?

    Maybe having the gun doesn't matter, yet there is always the worse case it falls out or is grabbed.

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    Do I guard the gun and not help or do I do what I believe to be right and step in?
    Right or wrong, in any situation, all depends on how much money you are prepared to spend on a good attorney if need be for your choice to defend anyone other than your immediate family.
    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    This is the point of the thread. Do I guard the gun and not help or do I do what I believe to be right and step in?

    Maybe having the gun doesn't matter, yet there is always the worse case it falls out or is grabbed.
    Maybe getting some training instead of discussing the theoretical what ifs on the Internet would be a good idea? Such basic questions are answered there, not really here. Here, you will get a lot of "expert" opinions from people that mostly have zero training.

    So, you are worried that your gun falls out. If this is really the case, then you have the wrong holster or carry method. Also, you have to guard your firearm, like certain important body parts, no matter what you do.

    Neither of these issues has anything to do with whether or not getting involved in the bus situation. If you are the target of an attack, then your gun better not fall out of its holster and you better protect your gun and other body parts. Get some training to learn how to do that!

  5. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    This is the point of the thread. Do I guard the gun and not help or do I do what I believe to be right and step in?

    Maybe having the gun doesn't matter, yet there is always the worse case it falls out or is grabbed.
    1 - you guard your own life.

    2 - you guard your family.

    3 - you guard friends that you specifically know and love (assuming that you are willing to risk dying for them and leaving your family fatherless in the wake).

    4 - you guard the gun.

    5 - you observe and report all other situations and try not to get involved unless the perp sees you calling on your cell phone and comes at you, and then in that case see 1, 2, 3, and 4 above.

    This is what Massad Ayoob taught us in his concealed carry videos out of New Jersey.

  6. #115
    Note that in the case of someone coming at you, that is a felony physical assault.

    You should not let anybody on this Earth get close enough in the first place to hit stab or grab you.

    If someone closes the gap on you then you should maintain your interval just like Bruce Lee (RIP) said and retreat and draw your weapon and get ready to shoot while you maintain your interval.

    Whether you shoot them or not depends on whether or not they stop in their tracks.

    If they stop in their tracks then the felony assault has ended and you have no longer a cause to shoot -- the threat has stopped.

    In that case where they have stopped you should keep retreating -- you want a nice BIG interval -- big enough so that if THEY draw a weapon they cannot reach you with it. Most people are really crappy shots. Distance is your savior. At the same time you should be practicing with your pistol so that you can hit targets from 25 to 50 yards.

    If they draw a pistol and they are 25 to 50 yards away from you, you should then be able to hit them without them hitting you, if you have practiced.

    When you go to the indoor range every month, you need to practice all kinds of shots from 2 yards away to 50 yards away. And one handed as well as 2 handed. And right handed as well as left handed both ways - one handed and 2 handed.

    And you need to stay physically fit and exercise and lift weights and practice punching and kicking on a heavy bag in case they DO get close enough to you before you can draw your pistol so that in this case where you fokked up by NOT maintaining your interval like Bruce Lee said, so that you can fight with your hands, feet, and fists to PROTECT THE GUN.

    It helps to have a fixed blade or jack knive on your belt or in your pocket for fights like that. Gives you a big advantage in a fist fight to have a knife.

    So it is a myth never to bring a knife to a gunfight. You might need the knife.

    Never go anywhere without a knife. My dad taught me that early-on right with not playing with fire or in traffic.

  7. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Right or wrong, in any situation, all depends on how much money you are prepared to spend on a good attorney if need be for your choice to defend anyone other than your immediate family.
    Dead men tell no tales (lies).

  8. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    Dead men tell no tales (lies).
    But witnesses do.

  9. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by RJT CCW View Post
    But witnesses do.
    That's why you always need to look around first to be sure if there are witnesses or not.

    Witnesses related to your assailant and going to lie -- his girlfriend etc.

    Witnesses that you have been defending are going to tell the truth.

    The crowd is going to break either way, for you or against you.

    That's why it is important to retreat, keep your interval, shout to the assailant to "stop!", and give him/her plenty of chances to discontinue their assault on you -- even though people will argue naively that there is no duty to retreat in their state.

    You need to make plenty of noise first so that others can hear you -- same as Zimmerman did when he killed Trayvon Martin.

    It is never wise to shoot somebody at first reflex.

  10. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    That's why you always need to look around first to be sure if there are witnesses or not.

    Witnesses related to your assailant and going to lie -- his girlfriend etc.

    Witnesses that you have been defending are going to tell the truth.

    The crowd is going to break either way, for you or against you.

    That's why it is important to retreat, keep your interval, shout to the assailant to "stop!", and give him/her plenty of chances to discontinue their assault on you -- even though people will argue naively that there is no duty to retreat in their state.

    You need to make plenty of noise first so that others can hear you -- same as Zimmerman did when he killed Trayvon Martin.

    It is never wise to shoot somebody at first reflex.
    Depending upon your situation you may or may not have time to look around for witness. And quite frankly, if I am in fear of my life from someone presenting a deadly threat, I will do what ever is in my power to stop the threat (evade, escape, confront depending on the options). Looking for witnesses first is a great way to lose and not in your best interest. Looking for witnesses after the event (however it turned out) is the proper time and the correct procedure.

  11. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by RJT CCW View Post
    Depending upon your situation you may or may not have time to look around for witness. And quite frankly, if I am in fear of my life from someone presenting a deadly threat, I will do what ever is in my power to stop the threat (evade, escape, confront depending on the options). Looking for witnesses first is a great way to lose and not in your best interest. Looking for witnesses after the event (however it turned out) is the proper time and the correct procedure.
    You can look around for witnesses as you asses the treat level of the location in your situational awareness survey before anything actually develops. This is something everybody is supposed to do them second they step out of their house or car and before they enter anyplace.

    For instance, in a biker bar, with lots of bikers and their friends, you would probably not stand a chance of getting a friendly witness there.

    I guess you would simply have to shoot all of them.

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