When To Pull and or Shoot
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Thread: When To Pull and or Shoot

  1. When To Pull and or Shoot

    Hello, I'm new here. I'm interested in discussing situations that may lead to justified brandishing and shooting in self defense. I'm going to start by providing a YouTube video of a situation. This discussion is not limited to this occurrence and I welcome others to provide scenarios and videos to discuss this issue.

    This may be a familiar video that has been addressed, but I'm new and have had no luck finding an ongoing scenario thread.

    In this video, a car is being chased and eventually attacked by a cycle gang. At the point the biker smashes the drivers window, I would have shot the biker. Agree, disagree?

    I've been on a highway where these nuts think they own the road. They can be very intimidating.


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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    . justified brandishing
    Doesn't exist. I think you may mean a justified defensive display. Basically if you would be otherwise justified in using deadly force you would be justified in threatening deadly force.

    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    At the point the biker smashes the drivers window, I would have shot the biker. Agree, disagree?
    Maybe, but even if he did there's no guarantee that it would have changed the outcome.

    Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

  4. #3
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    This particular incident has been discussed before in this thread: What would you do?

    In general, learn skills that will help you to avoid situations and to deal with them when they happen. Learn how to defend yourself with an appropriate level of force. Learn the legal concepts of justifiable use of force, including justifiable homicide according to your state's law. Learn what not to do.

    When someone smashes my car window with the intent to attack me, I am going to defend myself to the best of my abilities. That includes driving away if I can without injuring an innocent person or using the appropriate level of force against the attacker. My state, TN, has extended the castle doctrine to the car. Note that shooting an attacker while sitting in the car does have its own hazards and should be learned in a training class and practiced.

    Now, what's next? There are multiple attackers. Will they flee? What's your plan? Do you stay with the car? The circumstances of the situation and your training decide that.

    As for "brandishing", what does that even mean? Waiving your gun around to "warn" someone is something for movies and may very likely land you in jail in reality.

    "Can I?" ... or "Should I?" are the wrong questions anyway. "Do I have to?" ... is the right question.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    This particular incident has been discussed before in this thread: What would you do?

    In general, learn skills that will help you to avoid situations and to deal with them when they happen. Learn how to defend yourself with an appropriate level of force. Learn the legal concepts of justifiable use of force, including justifiable homicide according to your state's law. Learn what not to do.

    When someone smashes my car window with the intent to attack me, I am going to defend myself to the best of my abilities. That includes driving away if I can without injuring an innocent person or using the appropriate level of force against the attacker. My state, TN, has extended the castle doctrine to the car. Note that shooting an attacker while sitting in the car does have its own hazards and should be learned in a training class and practiced.

    Now, what's next? There are multiple attackers. Will they flee? What's your plan? Do you stay with the car? The circumstances of the situation and your training decide that.

    As for "brandishing", what does that even mean? Waiving your gun around to "warn" someone is something for movies and may very likely land you in jail in reality.

    "Can I?" ... or "Should I?" are the wrong questions anyway. "Do I have to?" ... is the right question.
    Avoiding the situation goes without needing to say, we all know this. I'm looking to discuss actual scenarios where this is not available. The car was pinned. He did escape once. The guy was beat badly and had family in the car.

    My question is: once the window is broken and they are attempting to open the door, do you shoot or not?

    There are numerous other scenarios where one has to make quick decisions. IMO, being mentally and situationally prepared helps when seconds count.

    I use brandishing as pulling your weapon as a deterrent or deesculator. Would showing the gun to the biker possibly stopped the break in?

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
    Doesn't exist. I think you may mean a justified defensive display. Basically if you would be otherwise justified in using deadly force you would be justified in threatening deadly force.



    Maybe, but even if he did there's no guarantee that it would have changed the outcome.

    Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances
    .

    True, but the outcome was bad anyway. I believe mental preparation is important, in this and other scenarios to prepare. IMO, the best option was to show the gun while the biker was walking up, then shoot him once he penetrated the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    Avoiding the situation goes without need to say, we all know this. I'm looking to discuss actual scenarios where this is not available. The car was pinned. He did escape once. The guy was bear badly and had family in the car.

    My question is: once the window is broken and they are attempting to open the door, do you shoot or not?
    I answered that question!

    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    There are numerous other scenarios where one has too make quick decisions. IMO, being mentally and situationally prepared helps when seconds count.

    I use brandishing as pulling your weapon as a deterrent or deesculator. Would showing the gun to the biker possibly stopped the break in?
    What you describe is illegal! It is also stupid, unless you want to motivate the biker to lawfully shoot you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    "Can I?" ... or "Should I?" are the wrong questions anyway. "Do I have to?" ... is the right question.
    Really, this is the best answer you're going to get.
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

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    Quote Originally Posted by maat View Post
    .

    True, but the outcome was bad anyway. I believe mental preparation is important. Inset his and other scenarios to prepare. IMO, the best option was to show the gun while the biker was walking up, then shoot him once he penetrated the car.
    You could be charged with murder. Once you show your gun, you applied lethal force without justification.

    Stupid is as stupid does!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    I answered that question!



    What you describe is illegal! It is also stupid, unless you want to motivate the biker to lawfully shoot you!
    "Brandishing" in a situation where one would otherwise be justified in a self-defense shooting is not illegal in Kansas. If showing the handgun stops the life-or-limb attack, that is legal.

    That said, if you whip it out you better be prepared to use it. Just waving it around will likely get you shot.
    Last edited by SkippySanchez; 02-04-2017 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    You could be charged with murder. Once you show your gun, you applied lethal force without justification.

    Stupid is as stupid does!
    Charged with murder? Maybe. Convicted? Probably not. Depends on what lead up to the situation before the camera started rolling. Did the driver initiate the confrontation? Did he injure or kill the guy on the bike that he ran over? As much as we'd like this to change in this era of protesters blocking highways, it's illegal to intentionally hit someone with a motor vehicle. Some states are now crafting laws along these lines.
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