Lethal vs. Less Lethal ammo for self defense - Page 4
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Thread: Lethal vs. Less Lethal ammo for self defense

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
    Can you provide examples of this actually occuring?
    A lot of people make the claim, but nobody has been able to provide an example yet.

    Back to the OP's original question:

    Quote Originally Posted by mikehall0995 View Post
    What are others thoughts on this? How does the law/courts view using less lethal rounds for self defense? Would love others opinions.
    1. Police do not mix ammo in their magazines. Therefore, I'm not going to.

    2. Another reason mixing ammo is bad is because different ammo will have different characteristics including recoil and point of impact vs. point of aim. You need to practice with what you carry enough so that you know all it's characteristics.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    Alcohol releases the inner child and the honest person.

    People on alcohol do not lie. And they do not hide their real persona inside either.

    I have seen mean girlies on liquor and romantic girlies on liquor. They all amuse me very much. I love them all, even the meanies.

    However a sober mean woman is a disaster to herself and to the Earth.

    Vodka and lemon is a good drink for the ladies (and women) [the difference being etymologically that ladies are "unmarried bread bakers" while women are "married ladies"].

    A little bit of libation once a week or so is good for the soul -- and body.

    And nothing about the World (here having the meaning of the population of the Earth) changes on one drink -- you still need to be able to draw quickly and shoot straight.

    That's also why I always recommend a leather zippered purse with a thick long shoulder strap for females (humans) carrying concealed -- this way she can grip her handgun inside her purse and remain concealed until needed.
    Yep. PWI (Posting While Intoxicated).
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Yep. PWI (Posting While Intoxicated).
    Ah, got it. Thank you.

  5. #34

    Lethal vs. Less Lethal ammo for self defense

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    You must be PWI.
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Yep. PWI (Posting While Intoxicated).
    Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    Ah, got it. Thank you.
    Simply saying posting while intoxicated takes too long to type, I presume?

  6. Personally I think its a mistake to think any ammo is non lethal. And I would never want to say differently in open court.

    When hunting you find that the size of the whole is a lot less important than where you put it.

    If using hollow point you say its to limit possible collateral damage.
    If you are using ball ammo you say its because you where afraid the gun might jam when you needed it the most.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by mikehall0995 View Post
    I am soon going to start carrying a concealed weapon and have been pondering and reading about the numerous methods, theories, tips, etc. I am curious about other opinions on carrying, or using for defense at home, less lethal rounds. I can see two clear sides to the issue and would love others thoughts, particularly on the legal ramifications.

    If I could convince myself that a self defense round could fire reliably from my carry gun, I would think it'd be beneficial to say place two less than lethal rounds at the top of the magazine followed by hollow points. This way I could potentially stop a situation without having kill, which seems logical. the intent of concealed carry is stop violence and preserve life. The potential issue I see here is should have to use my weapon and I get sued or have to prove my case, would I be screwing myself by shooting less than lethal ammo? I get it that technically less than lethal ammo could still be lethal, but I can picture a defense attorney saying "Well, if you really thought your life was in imminent danger, why only shoot with less than lethal?" I could see this situation looking worse for an altercation out in public than at home. I guess I would say here, I felt my life was threatened, but my intent was not kill, but rather to stop the altercation. The only drawback would be a very rare situation in which I would have to draw my weapon in a situation where say I was already being shot at, in which case, I could see wanting those hollow points on top.

    What are others thoughts on this? How does the law/courts view using less lethal rounds for self defense? Would love others opinions.




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  8. I agree that less lethal would be a thought while in a public place. But odds are you are less likely to be attacked in a public or heavily populated area. Proper training from you local Sherrifs or Police departments are well worth the price you pay and most of your fees are donated by the departments. I know here in Indiana it's about $50 for 4 hours classroom then off to the range.


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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyh302 View Post
    I agree that less lethal would be a thought while in a public place. But odds are you are less likely to be attacked in a public or heavily populated area. Proper training from you local Sherrifs or Police departments are well worth the price you pay and most of your fees are donated by the departments. I know here in Indiana it's about $50 for 4 hours classroom then off to the range.
    I think to further this discussion, we need to actually specify what we are talking about in this thread. The OP made only one post and never specified what less than lethal ammunition is. The only handgun ammunition that I can come up with that would fit that profile would be CCI Shotshell. As already mentioned in this thread, such ammunition can still be deadly, such as when shooting someone in the face. I think it is outright stupid to carry such ammunition for self defense against humans.

    As for your comment about using such rounds while in a "public place". The OP is about concealed carry, which implies in the public and not on private property.

    As for your comment about being less likely to be attacked in a public or heavily populated area, that's absolute nonsense. There is no data to support that. Recent mall shootings show otherwise. Good luck using such type of ammunition in a crowd, by the way. Also, are you going to switch out your ammunition when going from the populated mall to the less-populated parking lot?

    As for your comment about training from the local Sheriff or Police Department, I think you got that backwards. Such training classes is for beginners, where they tell you what a bullet, trigger and slide is. Then you go to a 180-degree square shooting range to shoot at a stationary target. Actual self defense classes are taught by professional firearms instructors, where the Sheriff and Police Department send their guys to get training as well.

  10. #39
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    I don't know about other places but in my area none of the sheriffs or police departments conduct any kind of shooting classes for the public. If anything, their people use the same private instructors that the pubic has available for advanced or refresher training.

  11. Summary findings

    Between 2004 and 2008 --
    About 1 in 3 violent crimes occurred in or near the victimís own home.
    During this time period almost 1 in 5 violent crimes took place in open areas such as yards, playgrounds, fields, on the street or in other similar locations.
    Almost two thirds of all property crimes took place in or near the home of the household members.
    More than 1 in 10 property crimes occurred in parking lots or garages.
    Purse snatchings and pocket pickings typically occur away from home. The most common places of occurrence were in commercial places such as restaurants, bars and other commercial buildings (39.1%) and open areas such as the street or on public transportation (28.2%). About 10% of personal thefts occurred in or near the victimís home or the home of a friend or neighbor.


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