Inability to legally carry on federal property - Page 3
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Thread: Inability to legally carry on federal property

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Sinlessearth View Post
    This all depends on the base and their policies. Every base is different. Not sure about the VA.
    I was referring to civilian life and not actual military bases. At the time though I worked as a Correctional Officer so Im stressing to remember if it was a something they offered to all civilians or not

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  3. Unless you live in on base housing, barracks, or RV camping areas and check firearms into an armory (if they have one) then carrying a gun on your person or vehicle is not allowed. No base I was ever stationed on ever allowed it and I use the VA a lot and it is strictly prohibited as are knives of any kind. As far as federal buildings, courthouses, etc... forget it. Tmaca is very correct in his post. Don't even think about carry on any federal properties or lands.

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  4. Quote Originally Posted by niceshootintex View Post
    Don't even think about carry on any federal properties or lands.

    Sent from my XT1585 using USA Carry mobile app
    What about National Parks? Those are Federal lands.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    What about National Parks? Those are Federal lands.
    Good point and my recollection is based on a RV trip three years ago so forgive any holes based on my discussion with a couple of Park Rangers. National Parks are a deviation of sorts. They roll up their firearms permissions into a 50 state agreement that requires a firearm to be cased and unloaded for the purposes of transporting through a park or while camping there. The exceptions in two cases are both to ALLOW hunting. First being that a loaded firearm is permitted for hunting during a specific period for a specific species but no loaded firearms in vehicles ever or loaded and outside of vehicle out of season. Second, a concealed and loaded firearm is legal with a valid permit from the state of origin and that rule only applies for specific seasons and species and also does not apply during primitive weapon or chase only hunting seasons. I don't remember why (blue laws?) but since there is no hunting allowed on Sundays ever, no loaded firearms are ever allowed on Sundays. So they are more lenient than courthouses, correctional facilities, VA hospital etc... but only as it relates to hunting. Clear as mud right?😉

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  6. Quote Originally Posted by niceshootintex View Post
    Good point and my recollection is based on a RV trip three years ago so forgive any holes based on my discussion with a couple of Park Rangers. National Parks are a deviation of sorts. They roll up their firearms permissions into a 50 state agreement that requires a firearm to be cased and unloaded for the purposes of transporting through a park or while camping there. The exceptions in two cases are both to ALLOW hunting. First being that a loaded firearm is permitted for hunting during a specific period for a specific species but no loaded firearms in vehicles ever or loaded and outside of vehicle out of season. Second, a concealed and loaded firearm is legal with a valid permit from the state of origin and that rule only applies for specific seasons and species and also does not apply during primitive weapon or chase only hunting seasons. I don't remember why (blue laws?) but since there is no hunting allowed on Sundays ever, no loaded firearms are ever allowed on Sundays. So they are more lenient than courthouses, correctional facilities, VA hospital etc... but only as it relates to hunting. Clear as mud right?��

    Sent from my XT1585 using USA Carry mobile app
    This is the exact reason why I tend to speak out when people post things thought to be law, when it actually isn't (like FOPA not requiring ammo and gun to be in separate containers). We have enough restrictions in statutes that do exist, we as the gun community certainly do not be needing to promote restrictions that do not exist.

    Since February 20, 2010, 7 years ago, Federal firearms regulations in National Parks was dropped. There is no difference in firearms laws when you pass through the gate to a National Park. The state laws of whatever state you happen to be in, even though on National Park land, applies. Buildings in the National Park which have NPS employees performing their regular duties must be posted with the sign required by 18 USC 930 declaring that the prohibition of firearms in Federal facilities applies to that building.

    What the New Law Says
    The new law allowing guns in national parks was created as part of the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009, which was approved by Congress and President Barack Obama. It took effect Feb. 22, 2010. Here is the partial text of Section 512, Protecting Americans from Violent Crimes:
    “Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System—The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if—(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.”

    Source: https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/manag...arks2-2010.pdf
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. What about the Post Office? Can I legally leave my gun locked in the car in the Post Office parking lot while running inside to mail a package?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    What about the Post Office? Can I legally leave my gun locked in the car in the Post Office parking lot while running inside to mail a package?
    Absolutely NOT unless the parking lot is on a shared property such as being inside a strip mall.

  9. #28
    Never served in a division/post that did not have at least a MG in command.
    Si vis pacem para bellum

  10. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Incorrect. Most installation commanders are O-6, Captains in the Navy and Colonels in all other branches.
    Yup. In most cases the highest ranking commander on an army post is most often not the post commander. The guy in charge of the place is usually a full colonel, but there is usually a tenant unit whose commander is some level of a general officer. The philosophy behind that is that a general has better things to do than worry about roads, maintenance, housing, facility security, and other "town government" kinds of things. The generals run and/or staff the military units, and a colonel handles the "town government" and housekeeping. Overseas the position. at least in the Army, is usually callled installation commander.

    US Parks: One big deal with the no guns in federal parks bit was that part of the highway system in Virginia next to DC runs through a national park, causing a lot of controversy because it turned a lot of legally carrying Virginians into criminals just by driving someplace they had to go all the time. That probably helped get it changed.

    US Post Offices, VA property, and any other federal owned, leased, or tenanted property: No you cannot leave the gun in the car. You cannot even drive into the parking lot if you have a weapon. Including any knife, even a folding knife, having a blade longer than 4 inches. The law says federal "property", which the parking lot is, not just in a federal building. That's a big problem at VA facilities.

    The VA medical facilities are most times miles, miles, and miles from many vets. In states with large rural areas, from most vets. I used to live over 400 miles round trip away from the VAMC that I had to got to every month. Now I'm closer, but it's stll 90 miles round trip. The same is true for VAROs, which are usually in the same city as the state's VAMC. And, especially in states where many vets are legally armed, nowadays pretty much everywhere except the Northeast and California, it is a horrible problem.

    I was waiting to see a pharmacist yesterday and a VA cop came up and started asking me if I had a gun. I'd been talking about guns (rifles, actually) with someone and some ********* called the cops claiming she'd heard me say I had a gun on me, which I had not. I'm not that stupid. It might have helped that he knew me and knew that besides being a vet I'm also a former large city cop, I don't know. When he questioned me he specifically asked if I had a gun out in my car. If I had, it would have been the same crime as if I had it on my hip inside the hospital. By the way, this stupid law is so broad that even currently full time sworn state, county, or city police officers cannot legally be armed on federal property unless they're there on official police business. Current or honorably retired LEOs can get a special permit from Homeland Security, but the last time I checked it cost $400.

    As far as I know, no VAMC or VARO anywhere in the country has a parking lot anywhere nearby which is not part of their property, and I'm completely certain that if even any do it's a pay to park lot. Many VA police do utilize some common sense; one time a few years ago I was leaving and one saw me holstering my 1911 as I was getting in the car, and he just stopped and checked that I was on my way out. But he could have arrested me, and some would. Another time, going through the security screen at the VARO, noticing my empty holster, a VA cop asked if had a gun locked in the car out in the parking lot, so it seems to be official policy to enforce the no weapons anywhere on VA propery. If you have a weapon in the car you just have to hope that the VA cop who realizes it is more reasonable than the law is. Not a hope that it's comfortable staking your potential punishment and a permanent criminal history on..

    The law as it now stands legally disarms all veterans who have to drive to a VAMC or VARO, every day facing tens of thousands of vets with the choice of either leaving all firearms and all knives with a more than 4 inch blade (even standard folding Buck knives are too long) home when they have to drive to a VAMC or VARO or being a federal criminal from the moment they drive into a VA parking lot until they leave. If anything happens, like maybe an accident on VA property, and they find a weapon in the car, the vet can and very well might be arrested. In fact, because of that I suspect it is open to a constitutional challenge, and I wish some organization with the necessary resources would sue to get an exception for securing weapons in the vehicle when a vet has legitimate business at a VA facility providing, as the federal parks rule now requires, that his being armed is otherwise legal in accordance with federal and applicable state laws.
    Last edited by tmaca; 05-20-2017 at 02:09 PM. Reason: typos

  11. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    This is the exact reason why I tend to speak out when people post things thought to be law, when it actually isn't (like FOPA not requiring ammo and gun to be in separate containers). We have enough restrictions in statutes that do exist, we as the gun community certainly do not be needing to promote restrictions that do not exist.

    Since February 20, 2010, 7 years ago, Federal firearms regulations in National Parks was dropped. There is no difference in firearms laws when you pass through the gate to a National Park. The state laws of whatever state you happen to be in, even though on National Park land, applies. Buildings in the National Park which have NPS employees performing their regular duties must be posted with the sign required by 18 USC 930 declaring that the prohibition of firearms in Federal facilities applies to that building.

    What the New Law Says
    The new law allowing guns in national parks was created as part of the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009, which was approved by Congress and President Barack Obama. It took effect Feb. 22, 2010. Here is the partial text of Section 512, Protecting Americans from Violent Crimes:
    “Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System—The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if—(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.”

    Source: https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/manag...arks2-2010.pdf
    So that is the exact reason you speak out on an opinion board? Somebody relates their own experience based on recollection and conversations with Park Rangers and you swoop in to save the day? Thank God you're here to save us LCDR. I based my reply on my experiences having actually hunted in National Parks in Texas and Wyoming. I didn't run to Google it and like most posts in these forums, the responses are layered such that the accumulation of experiences or opinions drives the end result and your response was well researched so thanks. I now have a clearer picture of Nation Park firearm rules and it will probably be helpful at some point too. Speak in a less sanctimonious and condescending manner to your fellow firearms enthusiasts when you come with the better set of facts. I'm pretty sure we all got some good gouge from you so thanks.

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