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Thread: Indian reservation

  1. Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post
    Depends on the given tribe. If you're made and they do not allow it, they can impound your firearm and it will literally take an act of Congress to get it back if you get it back at all. I have not heard of a CCW holder being jailed by a tribe for unauthorized CCW. I have heard of quite a few incidents of them being trespassed from the reservation and having to jump through hoops to get their firearm back if they get it back at all.
    As I said before yes you can spend time in jail. I have seen it. A friend spent 7 days in jail before his case was heard. Their laws are different and subject to much different penalties. Just call the tribe and ask

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  3. [quote=netentity;62638]Do you have any specific instances of this? I do not believe that they have the authority to do that if you're not a member of the tribe from my understanding of the law. They can impound your firearm, trespass you from their land and turn you over to the county or State authorities for the offense. I've heard of quite a few instances of that but never imprisonment in the reservation jail especially by someone who is not a member of the tribe.{/quote]

    This shows how little you Know. I have seen them hold people for DUI for weeks before trail or even first hearing. I spend a great deal of time working with tribes in AZ, NM and soon up here in Washington. I donate time to help head starts and other day care providers get building up to date to keep their funding. At my wedding last year I had elders of 3 AZ tribes at my wedding, Hopi, Navajo, Supai and San Carlos Apache. Most reservations are totally autonomous and have their own laws, and right to hold you and try you (kinda like doing a crime in Mexico).


    I am not advocating unauthorized CCW on an Indian Reservation as I'm part Native American myself and have great respect for their heritage. I do advocate contacting the tribal police or government and finding out their law pertaining to lawful CCW and following their laws if you go on their land. If they don't allow it don't venture on their land.
    I am 1/8th Cherokee Indian myself, that means squat. Traveling in some parts of the west you must travel through reservation lands, and while on those highways you are subject to their laws and jurisdiction.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockwerks View Post
    This shows how little you Know. I have seen them hold people for DUI for weeks before trail or even first hearing. I spend a great deal of time working with tribes in AZ, NM and soon up here in Washington. I donate time to help head starts and other day care providers get building up to date to keep their funding. At my wedding last year I had elders of 3 AZ tribes at my wedding, Hopi, Navajo, Supai and San Carlos Apache. Most reservations are totally autonomous and have their own laws, and right to hold you and try you (kinda like doing a crime in Mexico).
    Apparently you haven't heard of Public Law 83-280. Under Public Law 83-280, they have to notify local or federal law enforcement when there is a crime on Tribal Land. Under Public Law 83-280, major crimes are investigated by the FBI or BIA police. Tribal law unfortunately has been watered down because of Public Law 83-280 and other laws pertaining the tribal judicial system. Domestic violence was virtually uncommon on tribal lands now it's unfortunately quite common. There is a general state of lawlessness because of Public Law 83-280. It's also dangerous in many cases not to CCW on an Indian Reservation because of this ripple effect of Public Law 83-280.
    Traveling in some parts of the west you must travel through reservation lands, and while on those highways you are subject to their laws and jurisdiction.
    They do not have jurisdiction to enforce State traffic laws. If I am speeding on I-40 in AZ and NM which goes through quite a few tribal lands, jurisdiction of traffic laws falls under local or State law enforcement as the highways are maintained by the respective State DOT not the Tribe. They can't even pull me over.

    Civil matters are internal to the reservation such as them impounding property require federal approval to have the matter heard out of the respective Tribal judicial system. That won't happen. Best practice to do is not to CCW on Tribal Lands unless you explicitly know it's allowed. While it may be allowed today, it may change tomorrow so be forewarned. It takes an act of Congress to levy any sort of civil action against a Tribe or member of the Tribe for acts that have occurred in Indian Country.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  5. #14
    I have to drive past through a reservation on the way to work. They do not recognize the MN concealed carry permit and signs posted say that it is "subject to forfeiture and tribal/state penalties."
    "Gun a Month" Club Member

  6. Trust me they will hold you till your court, which will be bia etc. many places do not have such officers within 200 miles. You are way outdated on your information, That enacted in 1953 only pertains to tribes that do not have their own codes and enforcement. and only pertains to tribal members. The Hopi and Navajo have been self governing since the 70's.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post

    They do not have jurisdiction to enforce State traffic laws. If I am speeding on I-40 in AZ and NM which goes through quite a few tribal lands, jurisdiction of traffic laws falls under local or State law enforcement as the highways are maintained by the respective State DOT not the Tribe. They can't even pull me over.
    You are very mistaken. They can and do pull you over, ask my wife. If they have a speeding law you are speeding on Tribal land. Interstate or not, you are violating Tribal law and will be sited. I have seen numerous times around Sanders AZ, a DPS highway patrol will pull you over and wait till tribal responds. They have the jurisdiction on their lands. My wife received a speeding ticket on I40 just outside of Gallup from Navajo police.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post

    They do not have jurisdiction to enforce State traffic laws. If I am speeding on I-40 in AZ and NM which goes through quite a few tribal lands, jurisdiction of traffic laws falls under local or State law enforcement as the highways are maintained by the respective State DOT not the Tribe. They can't even pull me over.
    You are very mistaken. They can and do pull you over, ask my wife. If they have a speeding law you are speeding on Tribal land. Interstate or not, you are violating Tribal law and will be sited. I have seen numerous times around Sanders AZ, a DPS highway patrol will pull you over and wait till tribal responds. They have the jurisdiction on their lands. My wife received a speeding ticket on I40 just outside of Gallup from Navajo police.

    and I was partially wrong about CCw on tribal lands here is the info on AZ tribes:

    There are 21 Indian reservations in Arizona. If you are otherwise carrying lawfully, you may carry on federal and state highways that cross reservations. If you are not an American Indian, a reservation cannot prosecute you for carrying a firearm if your carry is legal in the surrounding county. However, if your firearm should be confiscated, it is up to the tribe if it wishes to provide you a means to seek its return; you cannot sue a tribe unless it consents to be sued. A privately conducted 2005 survey of 20 of the 21 reservations asked if they honored the Arizona CWP:
    1. Ak-Chin Yes
    2. Cocopah No
    3. Colorado River Yes
    4. Fort McDowell Yavapai Yes
    5. Fort Mojave No
    6. Fort Yuma-Quechan Yes
    7. Gila River No
    8. Havasupai No
    9. Hopi Yes
    10. Haulapai No
    11. Kaibab-Paiute No
    12. Navajo Yes
    13. Pascua Yaqui No
    14. Salt River Pima-Maricopa No
    15. San Carlos Apache Yes
    16. Tohono O’odham Yes
    17. Tonto Apache No
    18. White Mountain Apache Yes
    19. Yavapai Prescott No
    20. Yavapai Apache No

    Note that tribal governments may change, that open carry is likely to be viewed as provocative if you are not engaged in a licensed hunt and that many tribes don’t allow their own members to carry deadly weapons.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockwerks View Post
    You are very mistaken. They can and do pull you over, ask my wife. If they have a speeding law you are speeding on Tribal land. Interstate or not, you are violating Tribal law and will be sited. I have seen numerous times around Sanders AZ, a DPS highway patrol will pull you over and wait till tribal responds. They have the jurisdiction on their lands. My wife received a speeding ticket on I40 just outside of Gallup from Navajo police.
    This is probably a pact that the respective tribe has made with the State the reservation is in, they probably split the difference on the fine which is why DPS is pulling motorists over and not Tribal Police.
    There are 21 Indian reservations in Arizona. If you are otherwise carrying lawfully, you may carry on federal and state highways that cross reservations. If you are not an American Indian, a reservation cannot prosecute you for carrying a firearm if your carry is legal in the surrounding county. However, if your firearm should be confiscated, it is up to the tribe if it wishes to provide you a means to seek its return; you cannot sue a tribe unless it consents to be sued.
    Isn't that what I said from the beginning of this thread? I live in Nevada I am very cognizant of this reality since I travel to AZ pretty often we also have a couple of tribes in Clark County Nevada. Tribes may be self governing, but they cannot prosecute a non-tribal member for unlawful CCW if it's otherwise legal in the State the tribal land is in other than simple trespass.
    Note that tribal governments may change, that open carry is likely to be viewed as provocative if you are not engaged in a licensed hunt and that many tribes don’t allow their own members to carry deadly weapons.
    I haven't seen an updated survey, it may have changed. If you live or travel through States with Indian Reservations you need to be aware of their policies. You will lose your firearm and it will be at the whim of the Tribe if you get it back if they don't allow it.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  10. I guess my point is that in the Navajo res they will probably take you to Window Rock, AZ, process you there and then call the authorities to handle things. You can spend a day or 2 in jail awaiting for things to happen. I know of a friend who spent 3 days in Window Rock for Reckless driving on I40 before he was processed. Their laws are quite different than ours. The tribe can site you on their own on any highway crossing their land. They are a sovereign nation

    I guess the point here is to CALL the TRIBE and get permission first

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockwerks View Post
    I guess my point is that in the Navajo res they will probably take you to Window Rock, AZ, process you there and then call the authorities to handle things. You can spend a day or 2 in jail awaiting for things to happen. I know of a friend who spent 3 days in Window Rock for Reckless driving on I40 before he was processed. Their laws are quite different than ours. The tribe can site you on their own on any highway crossing their land. They are a sovereign nation

    I guess the point here is to CALL the TRIBE and get permission first
    The only point any of us are interested in on this forum are the merits of CCW in Indian Country. You posted the blurb I was looking for myself that was on the PDO AZ page before it was taken offline.

    Public Law 83-280 addresses the issue of State lawful CCW in Indian Country where it's prohibited by the given Tribe. It is the type of reading that you need tylenol nearby to digest.

    The Tribe cannot charge you with a crime if you're not a member of the tribe for illegal CCW if it's otherwise legal. They can seize the firearm, trespass you from their land and make you jump through hoops to get it back. That alone is a major deterrent for most of us. I have heard of several first hand instances of that predominately in AZ.

    By the same token, you cannot be cited for speeding on I-40 if you're going the posted speed limit. The Tribe cannot lower the speed limit of portion of I-40 going through their land. Since you're legal by State law and most likely not a member of the Tribe, the Tribe cannot charge you with a crime under their laws. Same thing if I'm going north on I-15 or 95 and passing through the Moapa Tribe land or Las Vegas Paiute Tribes lands.

    Best way I deal with it is that I don't venture in Indian Country outside of State or federally maintained highways.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

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