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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by softbaitmaker View Post
    I guess I find it hard to believe that there is this many angry people living in America, calling themselves Americans that are so afraid of protecting their freedom that they object to a police officer just doing his or her job. Road Blocks have nothing to do with Berlin here in America. Road blocks here are designed to protect law abiding citizens and catch criminals and law breakers. If you are not breaking the law, what do you have to fear?
    Would you be OK with the police detaining people in McDonald's who are with children and asking them to prove their lawful ability to have those children under their control? Would the police simply be doing their jobs to ensure that the adults with the kids at McDonald's were not kidnappers?

    How about police carrying metal detecting wands to search passersby for firearms, using the wand as a basis for detaining persons to investigate their carrying of firearms?

    How about if during the license, registration and insurance check the police asked to look in the trunk of your car?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Would you be OK with the police detaining people in McDonald's who are with children and asking them to prove their lawful ability to have those children under their control? Would the police simply be doing their jobs to ensure that the adults with the kids at McDonald's were not kidnappers?
    How many times have you seen that happen??

    If I fit the description of the kidnapper or if the kids I was with fit the description of the missing children then no, I would have no problem with being stopped and questioned. Ditto if I was driving a vehicle that matched the description of one used in a crime. Why would I?? A slight inconvenience is a small price to pay for a little added public safety. Same thing with the occasional DUI checkpoint.

    A couple of years ago I was returning home from work. It was very late and as I got closer to home I started seeing more and more police cars on the streets and at intersections. As I pulled into my development I was stopped by a couple of officers who had set up a checkpoint. One shined his flashlight into the back of my truck while another asked me if everything was OK. I said everything was fine and asked them what was up? A home invasion w/ a shooting occured a few blocks away about 30 min before I got there. The perps had crashed their car while trying to get away and were on foot somewhere in the vicinity. When I got home I had my pistol in hand as I walked from my driveway to my front door. The perps were caught a few hours later about a mile and a half up the road from me.

    Was this a violation of my constitutional rights?? In the broadest sense yes, it probably was. Do I care in this instance? No. Am I going to whine about it like a little <female dog>? Hardly. I'm thankful the LEOs were on the scene and doing their jobs. I don't know about anyone else here but the police I've been in contact with have too much to do than to just go around stopping people just for the heck of it.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  4. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    If I fit the description of the kidnapper or if the kids I was with fit the description of the missing children then no, I would have no problem with being stopped and questioned.
    How would you know IF you REALLY "fit the description"?

    You could be a 7'1", 300lb. Black man with green hair and the police could tell you that you "fit the description" of the VA Tech gunman, a short, slight, dark haired Korean. And it's LEGAL for them to do so.

    Waiving your rights in such a situation based on the uncorroborated word of a strange LEO seems as ill-advised to me as sending somebody in Nigeria my bank account information because he says he's going to "share" $20,000,000 with me.

    The law says that LEOs can lie to suspects and witnesses during the course of an investigation. It doesn't say I have to believe what they say, or act to my detriment based on such a belief.

  5. #1014
    Quote Originally Posted by softbaitmaker View Post
    I guess I find it hard to believe that there is this many angry people living in America, calling themselves Americans that are so afraid of protecting their freedom that they object to a police officer just doing his or her job. Road Blocks have nothing to do with Berlin here in America. Road blocks here are designed to protect law abiding citizens and catch criminals and law breakers. If you are not breaking the law, what do you have to fear? I pass through road blocks all the time and when asked for my papers pertaining to my operators license, proof of insurance and other required documents to drive my Truck or Jeep I show them and move on after being cleared to do so. All the police are doing is their job and that job is trying to catch people breaking the law. Driving on revoked, Driving without insurance, Driving while intoxicated and maybe even arresting wanted felons. Did you ever stop to think that you have the freedom to be driving in the first place to approach that road block. I serve in our Armed Forces in a war for 5 years to make sure you and I continue to have that freedom. Have you ever stopped to think what this country would be like if we did not have our LEO's of our Police departments at all? I'm sorry but I cannot find any faults with the and what they do to protect us. I think they do the best they can with what they have to work with and I do what little I can to make their job just a little easier by cooperating with them every chance I get. JMHO
    I was in law enforcement for over 22 years and the military for 4 (CIB, PHs and the other "souvenirs" of a trip to see the elephant)...but I have been an American with a love for the constitution for about 62 years.

    Without "reasonable articulable suspicion" that a crime has been or is being committed, arbitrary checks of the citizenry are an affront to the 4th and 5th Amendments. Even if they were not, these kinds of police actions do little if anything to protect the citizenry...they are designed merely to assure that citizens comply with government regulation and taxation that has a tenuous at best relationship to any kind of public safety...and to assert the superiority of government agents.

    To paraphrase a quote frequently seen on the internet, those who would sacrifice liberty for the illusion of temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security...


  6. #1015
    I really didn't have any problem with the checkpoint. They didn't single me out at all. They were stopping everyone. I know that the checkpoints come up against court challenges from time to time, and as long as they aren't profiling, it has been ruled that they are legal. At least in NJ (where I'm from) and in VA (where I served behind a badge).

    None of my rights were violated. i was not searched. Nothing was seized. And since they were checking on the legality of my exercise of my driving "privilege", I had no issue with complying with their request to produce my license, registration, and proof of insurance. Also, seat belt use is now a primary offense here in FL (meaning they can pull you over for not wearing it. Used to be that they had to pull you over for another infraction first).

    Asking mw "What if they had asked to look in my trunk" doesn't mean anything. They didn't. And if they had, I would have refused. If they had THAT much probable course, let them get a warrant. Or, they could arrest me and perform a search incident to arrest.

    All in all, it took a few minutes of my time, they were polite and professional (except for the officer I spoke with after I was done. He was a yahoo.) and no rights of mine were violated.

  7. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    softbaitmaker;[/B]191385]I guess I find it hard to believe that there is this many angry people living in America, calling themselves Americans that are so afraid of protecting their freedom that they object to a police officer just doing his or her job. Road Blocks have nothing to do with Berlin here in America. Road blocks here are designed to protect law abiding citizens and catch criminals and law breakers. If you are not breaking the law, what do you have to fear? I pass through road blocks all the time and when asked for my papers pertaining to my operators license, proof of insurance and other required documents to drive my Truck or Jeep I show them and move on after being cleared to do so. All the police are doing is their job and that job is trying to catch people breaking the law. Driving on revoked, Driving without insurance, Driving while intoxicated and maybe even arresting wanted felons. Did you ever stop to think that you have the freedom to be driving in the first place to approach that road block. I serve in our Armed Forces in a war for 5 years to make sure you and I continue to have that freedom. Have you ever stopped to think what this country would be like if we did not have our LEO's of our Police departments at all? I'm sorry but I cannot find any faults with the and what they do to protect us. I think they do the best they can with what they have to work with and I do what little I can to make their job just a little easier by cooperating with them every chance I get. JMHO
    softbaitmaker:
    Driving on revoked
    rarely requires a roadblock, pick’em up when they drive away from their house
    Driving without insurance
    rarely requires a roadblock, pick’em up when they drive away from their house
    Driving while intoxicated
    road block is a hell of way to catch drunks, 10% of drivers according to AAA,
    10 Percent of Drivers Admit Driving Drunk, AAA Says - Oklahoma City News Story - KOCO Oklahoma City Detaining the 90% (if the figure is correct) of drivers passing through a particular route to catch drunks is inefficient and costly to the tax paying public, twice over.
    arresting wanted felons
    I can see this occasionally when a felon’s route is known

    softbaitmaker: I guess I find it hard to believe that there is this many angry people living in America, calling themselves Americans that are so afraid of protecting their freedom that they object to a police officer just doing his or her job.

    Your statement seems naïve – like you haven’t noticed the massive degradation of our freedoms over the past 30 years, most of it legislated under the guise of “our protection,” you know, just the way you’re coming across. Otherwise, you’d join the Angry American Movement and get a sense of genuine patriotism, the kind without flag waiving and jingoism but with a lot of substance. Americans have been baffled over nearly every military engagement we’ve entertained since WWII, arguably the last legitimate war we fought. I’m glad I stayed out of the military and avoided the extra propaganda and Stockholm Syndrome. I know you military guys will slam me for these statements and that’s ok – it’s the way I see it.

    softbaitmaker: I serve in our Armed Forces in a war for 5 years to make sure you and I continue to have that freedom.

    This sounds lofty – realistically you probably served the Armed Forces because you needed a job, a skill and an education on the Taxpayer. Recruiters don’t spend 10 seconds selling the military on your incredible cliché, “to make sure you and I continue to have that freedom.”
    Last edited by antietam; 03-27-2011 at 01:10 PM. Reason: sp

  8. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by antietam View Post
    softbaitmaker:
    Driving on revoked
    rarely requires a roadblock, pick’em up when they drive away from their house
    Driving without insurance
    rarely requires a roadblock, pick’em up when they drive away from their house
    Driving while intoxicated
    road block is a hell of way to catch drunks, 10% of drivers according to AAA,
    10 Percent of Drivers Admit Driving Drunk, AAA Says - Oklahoma City News Story - KOCO Oklahoma City Detaining the 90% (if the figure is correct) of drivers passing through a particular route to catch drunks is inefficient and costly to the tax paying public, twice over.
    arresting wanted felons
    I can see this occasionally when a felon’s route is known
    While these may be effective, they are not practical. The Police simply don't have the manpower to sit outside the residence of someone who has been revoked on the off-chance that they MIGHT drive. The same goes for someone without insurance. The Police will, on occasion, set up a roadblock in the area of a bar or club, knowing that a percentage of those driving away from the bar will be intoxicated.

    Your statement seems naïve – like you haven’t noticed the massive degradation of our freedoms over the past 30 years, most of it legislated under the guise of “our protection,” you know, just the way you’re coming across. Otherwise, you’d join the Angry American Movement and get a sense of genuine patriotism, the kind without flag waiving and jingoism but with a lot of substance.
    Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them any less patriotic than you are. Judging by your statements, I'd say that your sense of patriotism is overshadowed by your sense of self.

    Americans have been baffled over nearly every military engagement we’ve entertained since WWII, arguably the last legitimate war we fought. I’m glad I stayed out of the military and avoided the extra propaganda and Stockholm Syndrome. I know you military guys will slam me for these statements and that’s ok – it’s the way I see it.
    You're most likely wrong about that. Most vets I know, myself included, will say that the military isn't for everyone. However, you really DO owe your freedoms to those who have served, whether you like it or not. As to the legitimacy of our wars, that is determined by the winners, isn't it?

    This sounds lofty – realistically you probably served the Armed Forces because you needed a job, a skill and an education on the Taxpayer. Recruiters don’t spend 10 seconds selling the military on your incredible cliché, “to make sure you and I continue to have that freedom.”
    That statement is just plain insulting to everyone who served in the military. When I went into the Army, I had a job that paid well, I had a skill and experience. I was a single man, so didn't need to provide for a family. And I did not use the opportunity to sign up for the GI Bill (stupidly), so education wasn't the driving force behind my decision to enlist. I encountered a lot of resistance from my mother over it as well. she was still living in that post-Vietnam, peace no matter what it costs us, mindset. She changed her mind though when she saw the reality of what I gained from the military, and when she realised that I did it for love of country, not personal gain.

    I think, having read many of your posts here, that you and I disagree on almost every issue.

  9. #1018
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    softbaitmaker, I absolutely hate to say this and rarely do but I never want to insult anybody - however I do - except it's really not me doing it - it's the receiver who can become insulted or not. I know and work with a lot of military guys and judge them individually, like I judge everyone else. And I make general judgements a lot! - we all do, few admit it. I did use the word "probably" describing the reasons I think many go into the military realizing exceptions exist. My words about war and the military is general and political and I don't see why many expect extraordinary respect because they're military or an LEO. I'll give you respect as an individual and for what you are minus the military portion because I think our military uses patriotism to continue driving the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about in 1961. It's a huge subject and no time for it now. I'm baffled why and how people become insulted about someone else discrediting their idea or deeds of which their confidence should not be shaken. I'm Irish and cannot be insulted by Irish jokes - I laugh at them.

  10. #1019

    Cool My two cents

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    ^^^^^ Translated that means, "Well, crap, I can't say she should shoot, because then I would be saying she should shoot a police officer. I can't say she should not shoot, because then everybody will jump on me for saying she should not defend herself against rape. Damn it. What can I do..... I know, I'll post some for nonsensical drivel and maybe nobody will notice what a quandary I've gotten myself into...."
    I left the forums for a few days and it looks like I missed some good times.

  11. antietam

    I didn't take any offense what so ever in your statement as to why I enlisted in the military. You and your neighbors requested I enlist. I got a letter stating that your friends and neighbors have selected you to serve in the Armed Forces of the United States of America. In other words I received a draft notice. I didn't do it for education and because I was given a choice. Now rather than join the Army I made the choice to enlist in the US Navy instead. Could have went for two but went in for 4 instead but stayed for 5.5 years.1.5 years beyond my tour of duty because My Team was so far covert it took them 1.5 years to be able to extract us out. I served in Naval Spec Opts and spent almost 5 years in Southeast Asia. The training we recieved remains embedded in my mind every day right up to present day. The things I saw and the things we did replay every day in my mind yet I can function everyday with out Shrinks or Counselors. I had held a job as an ASE Master Auto Technician for the last 35 years before retiring. So my goal for joining the military was not for any of the reasons you mentioned. I was 18 years old and fresh out of High School when I got my letter. I was proud to serve my country then and I would be proud to serve it again. So if you want to judge my partiotism go right ahead and do so. You have that right because men like me keep earning that priviledge for you every day. I see changes in this country every day and I don't agree with many of them but I will always have respect for Law Enforcement Officers that lay their lives on the line everyday and each day their job gets a little harder. They are dealing with major drug dealers, Murderers, Rapists, Kidnappers, Drunk drivers, street gangs and lets not forget the bank robbers in full body armor packing more artillery than company of Marines that come out of a bank and kill about 9 or 10 officers and wound 10 or 15 more before being taken down. When a police officer stops me in a road block you can bet, I have all the respect for him or her possible. I know what it is like to lay your life on the line everyday when you put on a law enforcement uniform. Just like I felt when I woke up every morning in the Jungles of Southeast Asia. So you judge on because one day you will also be judged. JMHO

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