Inform the officer or not when concealed carry? - Page 22
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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by osmosis View Post
    joelevi made a few good points...
    Many of which I agree with and have repeatedly made myself, as have others. He hasn't suggested anything new other than handing over your permit and then not being completely forthright, which is completely asinine.
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #212
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    Hey osmosis: Your comment about joelevi making some good comments should have been prefaced with "very few". I still believe that this post was a "red herring". Can anyone with an ounce of common sense tell me that when it is dark and you are stopped by an LEO on a lonely road, and he does not know you, and you then give him your CCWP, and you then start talking up a lot of mysterious conspiracy/legal theory, that you expect him to be downright courteous and friendly and give you the benefit of the doubt and not be suspicious? This scenario defies logic; an LEO likes to go home at night and not recognizing a distorted picture with strange utterances from a motorist, does not help him get home. As everyone has posted on this thread, you either present your CCWP or not--end of story---live with the consequences--if you live in a state where mandatory presentation (whether you have the CCW on you or not) is necessary, so be it--it is your obligation. If it is not necessary, then do whatever you want-- BUT--when you are stopped by an LEO for any reason, respect and utmost attention to his commands are called for---not argumentative, suspicious discussion--that's crazy and if an LEO does not respond firmly to that kind of talk, he is a bit crazy and foolhardy, as well.

  4. #213
    In a state where the law says you must notify, well duh, you notify that you're carrying. Settled? Good? All agreed? Aye! The Ayes have it. Motion carries.

    In a state where one is NOT required to notify an officer that one is carrying, as is the case here in Washington state, I don't volunteer the fact that I'm carrying but I also won't deny it or lie in response to a direct question.

    If it's a routine traffic stop, no, I'm very likely not going to volunteer that I'm carrying. However, if I'm asked to step out of the vehicle, for any reason, or if the officer does anything else which might indicate he's about to find out I'm carrying a firearm, then yes I'm going to say, "Officer, I have a license to carry, and I do have it on me." Cops don't like surprises.

    I'm also not going to lie if I'm asked a direct question, such as "Do you have any drugs or weapons in the car?" Mas Ayoob related an incident where he and his daughter were driving near the Texas-Mexico border and happened upon a Customs Checkpoint. The officer was asking every vehicle stopped do you have any drugs or guns in the car. When the officer came up to Mas, he responded "Prescription drugs, personal firearms". I think this is without a doubt the best possible response one can offer to this question.

    Once I was stopped for failure to signal. The officer was stopping everyone for every infraction imaginable as there had been a series of crashes at that intersection recently. Wasn't writing tickets just glancing at ID and giving a verbal warning to be more careful. He asked whether I had any bombs, bazookas, hand grenades, or flamethrowers in the car. I couldn't resist chuckling as I answered "No, I did not". Still didn't volunteer I was carrying.
    Ken Grubb
    Puyallup, WA

  5. #214
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    hey kengrubb: Common sense should be the rule, not smartass joelevi comebacks and scholastic rhetoric. I still feel that giving an LEO my drivers license, car registration and insurance certificate and watching him go back to the car to check also provides him with possible information on things other than my driving/registration record--like a CCWP. I would rather be 100%+ cooperative and provide the CCWP along with the license than leave any room for suspicion. To each his own and each state may have a little different "twist" on the information that an LEO can get during a stop--but cooperation, cordiality, and full honesty sure help you in the long run.

  6. #215
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    While I haven't read EVERY post in this thread, I've read enough to have a question occur to me. Has it occurred to you that the requirement to disclose your CCW status places you in a subordinate position to the criminal at large? A criminal who doesn't disclose that he's got a gun if stopped for a simple traffic stop is merely exercising his Rights under the 5th Amendment...which is an option not available to us straight-arrow types. Also, could the ability to peer into your situation (by an LEO) and see that you have a CCW Permit be construed as "unnecessary search" without probable cause?

    Just playing Devil's advocate here... Whaddaya think?
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
    The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun - Is a Good Guy with a Gun!
    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    hey kengrubb: Common sense should be the rule, not smartass joelevi comebacks and scholastic rhetoric.
    kelcarry, what smartass comebacks did I present or share? Please be specific rather than general.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    I still feel that giving an LEO my drivers license, car registration and insurance certificate and watching him go back to the car to check also provides him with possible information on things other than my driving/registration record--like a CCWP.
    It's good that you feel this way, particularly given that SC is a must notify state.
    Ken Grubb
    Puyallup, WA

  8. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Ektarr View Post
    A criminal who doesn't disclose that he's got a gun if stopped for a simple traffic stop is merely exercising his Rights under the 5th Amendment.
    If said criminal is found in possession of a firearm, with or without a license to carry, as a convicted felon then it's another federal felony. A straight-arrow with a license to carry who doesn't notify might, depending upon the state in question, escape with only a misdemeanor or a fine. Exercising your 5A rights doesn't mean you can't still get convicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ektarr View Post
    could the ability to peer into your situation (by an LEO) and see that you have a CCW Permit be construed as "unnecessary search" without probable cause?
    Same could be said of the requirement to have a driver's license, proof of insurance, and vehicle registration.
    Ken Grubb
    Puyallup, WA

  9. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by kengrubb View Post
    If said criminal is found in possession of a firearm, with or without a license to carry, as a convicted felon then it's another federal felony. A straight-arrow with a license to carry who doesn't notify might, depending upon the state in question, escape with only a misdemeanor or a fine. Exercising your 5A rights doesn't mean you can't still get convicted.
    I didn't say he was 'found' to be carrying...I said what if he's stopped for a minor traffic violation, for example. He can't eventually be found guilty of failing to inform the officer he was carrying because that would violate his 5th Amendment Rights.

    Same could be said of the requirement to have a driver's license, proof of insurance, and vehicle registration.
    Some may pick at this, but the fact is that driving, and it's attendant requirements, isn't a Constitutionally protected Right, but a privilege controlled by the State . . . unlike Keep & Bear.
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
    The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun - Is a Good Guy with a Gun!
    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

  10. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    hey kengrubb: Common sense should be the rule, not smartass joelevi comebacks and scholastic rhetoric. I still feel that giving an LEO my drivers license, car registration and insurance certificate and watching him go back to the car to check also provides him with possible information on things other than my driving/registration record--like a CCWP. I would rather be 100%+ cooperative and provide the CCWP along with the license than leave any room for suspicion. To each his own and each state may have a little different "twist" on the information that an LEO can get during a stop--but cooperation, cordiality, and full honesty sure help you in the long run.
    In NC, your CC permit is linked to both your car ragistrations, and your driver's license. So since it is customary for the LEO to run your license plate # before he approaches you, he already know you have a CC permit.

    During "license checks" (sobriety checks) that information will not normally be available to the LEO, unless there is some irregularity that prompts him to run your DL and or plate#.

    But I'm in the camp that pull my permit and my license out together, even if I'm not carrying. We are required to show the permit IF we are carrying.

    The back of my permit says "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN WITHOUT THIS PERMIT AND VALID IDENTIFICATION IN YOUR POSSESSION OR TO FAIL TO DISCLOSE TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT YOU ARE A CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

    ymmv

  11. #220
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    hey kengrubb: I'm sorry if you misunderstood my "smartass comment". It was prefaced by "joelevi's" and it was meant as HIS comments not yours . As you said in previous posts some of his comments were legit but I just found the rest of it to be a bit of having fun at the expense of the rest of us who take this seriously. Sorry for the confusion and I apologize if I gave you reason to post the way you did. As billwot posted, I guess states are becoming more "computerized"--it seems an easy stretch to think that they can come up with your CCWP when they look up your license and registration.

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