Inform the officer or not when concealed carry? - Page 27
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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Ga9mm View Post
    I did that because I was pretty sure that when I took off my seatbelt, leaned over a little bit to get to my wallet, he would have seen it, had he been looking. I turned on the inside lights as I pulled up, and he had a light, so I didn't want to take any chances. If I had it in my back, he would have never known.
    Ya did good, Ga9.

  2.   
  3. #262
    Thanks!

  4. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by torontogunguy View Post
    If I am not mistaken, traffic stops follow only domestic dispute calls, where the LEO may be accosted by a nutbar with a firearm.
    I was unable to find the reporting of incidents of LEOs accosted by a nutbar anywhere in the 2008 LEOKA.

    However, Table 19 did give a really good, concise breakdown of the 530 LEOs feloniously killed between 1999 and 2008:

    122 - Arrest situation
    106 - Ambush situation
    101 - Traffic pursuit/stop (38 felony vehicle stop, 63 traffic violation stop)
    76 - Disturbance call (41 domestic disturbance, 35 other disturbance)
    62 - Investigating suspicious person/circumstance
    29 - Tactical situation (barricaded offender, hostage taking, high-risk entry, etc.)
    13 - Handling, transporting, custody of prisoner
    12 - Handling person with mental illness
    9 - Investigative activity (surveillance, search, interview, etc.)

    LEOKA reporting does not distinguish between traffic stops and traffic pursuit/stops among the 63 traffic violation stops. I would assert there is a world of difference between the danger inherent in a pursuit stop versus a traffic violation stop sans pursuit. Also, domestic disturbance calls, contrary to mythology, aren't the most dangerous endeavor known to LE.
    Ken Grubb
    Puyallup, WA

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Ga9mm View Post
    I went through a road block a while back, and was carrying on my hip, but covered by a jacket. My wallet was on the same side, back pocket. When the officer came to my window, he asked for my license. I told him I had a firearm on me, and had to reach behind it to get to my wallet. I asked how he wanted me to do it. He said to lean to the side enough, and go slow. I went slow enough that I almost fell asleep!! I took my dl and my permit out and gave him both at the same time. He looked at each of them, handed them back, thanked me for informing him, and I went on my way. I think that I would do it as a precaution. I can't think of any LEO's that like surprises like seeing a gun hidden on someone...
    And that is the reason EXACTLY. Flash a piece of gun and at the least you are going to be eating the pavement for a while. I go one step further in keep my CCW permit with my DL/insurance/registration and present the package to the officer - advise him if I am carrying.

    A while back we were driving to see a friend in a larger metropolitan area and stopped to use the payphone (don't ask) to ask him how to get to where he was. His response was "get back in your car and drive ten or fifteen minutes IN ANY DIRECTION and call me back". We were in druggy alley, 'the hood', whatever. Had we been stopped and flashed a piece of metal from our belt Lord knows what would have happened. That was actually a while back.... and sticks in my mind regularly. I base my decision on THAT amongst other things.

    Now we have GPS (does not guarantee you won't wind up in 'the hood').

    FWIW.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by kengrubb View Post
    I was unable to find the reporting of incidents of LEOs accosted by a nutbar anywhere in the 2008 LEOKA.

    However, Table 19 did give a really good, concise breakdown of the 530 LEOs feloniously killed between 1999 and 2008:

    122 - Arrest situation
    106 - Ambush situation
    101 - Traffic pursuit/stop (38 felony vehicle stop, 63 traffic violation stop)
    76 - Disturbance call (41 domestic disturbance, 35 other disturbance)
    62 - Investigating suspicious person/circumstance
    29 - Tactical situation (barricaded offender, hostage taking, high-risk entry, etc.)
    13 - Handling, transporting, custody of prisoner
    12 - Handling person with mental illness
    9 - Investigative activity (surveillance, search, interview, etc.)

    LEOKA reporting does not distinguish between traffic stops and traffic pursuit/stops among the 63 traffic violation stops. I would assert there is a world of difference between the danger inherent in a pursuit stop versus a traffic violation stop sans pursuit. Also, domestic disturbance calls, contrary to mythology, aren't the most dangerous endeavor known to LE.
    I did not mean to imply that they were, only that they were on the list of bad experiences. We have had LEO's killed here while delivering a summons in an apartment building to a witness; while sitting on stakeout in a parking lot (stabbed in the neck by drugheads); and one of the latest, and a friend of mine unfortunately, while making a routine stop and he never saw it coming. Rob was there one second and dead the next. So, yes, you are correct that there is a world of difference in a pursuit stop versus a traffic violation stop sans pursuit, but the fact is that it is mostly when your guard is down, even for a second, that trouble finds you, pursuit or not.

    The numbers and risk situations are changing all the time... take a look at the statistics for a few years prior and you will see the changes forming. Pursuits are better managed today with larger towns purchasing or leasing choppers and equipping them with FLIR and spotlights to eliminate or reduce the high speed ground chases. LEO's have better body armour and are now carrying shotguns and rifles more than ever before. Calls are being handled differently based on past experience (and training is changing to go along with that).

    Nontheless, my point was really that not only is it a much appreciated common courtesy but for those of us that travel state to state by car a lot it negates just one more potential foulup on our part. Same reason my magazines for carry are all ten rounders max. I don't want to be caught in a state where having a larger magazine despite the number of rounds loaded is a felony. Same reason I make it a rule not to carry into schools, federal buildings, etc. (the common denominator locations). Etc.

    For those that live and work in one state and have never left the state the situation may be slightly different but with regards to showing my CCW 'permit' my action will always be the same. Show the permit along with my DL package all the time. That way I also don't have to remember if the state requires me to or not. Lord knows I have enough trouble remembering to keep the tank filled.

    My feeling is that if there is no harm in it I'd rather be safe than sorry.

    NJ is my one big exception and I am trying to figure out how to handle NJ. No permit recognized. No point showing it as you are asking for trouble especially as they consider the mere possession of a hollow point round to be a felony. Full stop. So I'm driving all over the place and decide to visit the family in NJ. What does one do? Thus far, my plan is NOT to show my CCW permit and to have the gun and magazines locked up in my safe in the back of the car (Harbour Freight $49). But what do I do about the hollowpoints? I read recently about the gal from NY stopped in NJ where they found a single hollowpoint round floating around in the wheel well in her trunk and arrested her. THAT is my sole exception at this point. Headsup fellows. If you think NY is gun unfriendly (I personally don't) you just haven't been to NJ yet. Or north of the 49th.

  7. #266
    Join Date
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    Eastern North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by torontogunguy View Post
    NJ is my one big exception and I am trying to figure out how to handle NJ. No permit recognized. No point showing it as you are asking for trouble especially as they consider the mere possession of a hollow point round to be a felony. Full stop. So I'm driving all over the place and decide to visit the family in NJ. What does one do? Thus far, my plan is NOT to show my CCW permit and to have the gun and magazines locked up in my safe in the back of the car (Harbour Freight $49). But what do I do about the hollowpoints? I read recently about the gal from NY stopped in NJ where they found a single hollowpoint round floating around in the wheel well in her trunk and arrested her. THAT is my sole exception at this point. Headsup fellows. If you think NY is gun unfriendly (I personally don't) you just haven't been to NJ yet. Or north of the 49th.
    N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:
    (2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].
    Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
    N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).
    Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:
    1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
    2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
    3.A person going directly to a target range, and;
    4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

    New Jersey State Police - Transportation and Use of Hollow Point Ammunition by Sportsmen

  8. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by billwot View Post
    N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:
    (2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].
    Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
    N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).
    Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:
    1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
    2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
    3.A person going directly to a target range, and;
    4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

    New Jersey State Police - Transportation and Use of Hollow Point Ammunition by Sportsmen
    Allow me to translate...

    YOU don't have a NJ CCW ("YOU" meaning anyone who is reading this) and therefore are obviously not "carrying" in public with hollowpoints. So basically, as long as you are transporting your firearm within the NJ law, your hollowpoints are OK to go along for the ride.
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by torontogunguy View Post
    We have had LEO's killed here while delivering a summons in an apartment building to a witness; while sitting on stakeout in a parking lot (stabbed in the neck by drugheads); and one of the latest, and a friend of mine unfortunately, while making a routine stop and he never saw it coming. Rob was there one second and dead the next. So, yes, you are correct that there is a world of difference in a pursuit stop versus a traffic violation stop sans pursuit, but the fact is that it is mostly when your guard is down, even for a second, that trouble finds you, pursuit or not.
    I guess I'm somewhat confused. I agree that cops face a lot of dangers, but knowing there's someone with a concealed carry license and then being able to relax leaves me wondering what really changed. Should cops be more relaxed or more on guard?

    If everyone with a license to carry became conditioned during a traffic stop to tell cops "I've got a license to carry", and if the cops then became conditioned to relax a little upon hearing that, then I suspect there'd be a few dead cops out there who heard, "It's OK officer, I've got a license to carry" and it then became the last thing they heard before being shot dead by a wanted felon working on his third strike.

    Having reported stolen vehicles in a nationwide database, accessible to cops everywhere, and a standard procedure of running every plate of every vehicle during every traffic stop would seem to me a far better way to protect LEOs during traffic stops.

    My apologies in advance as I plead guilty to overanalyzing everything.
    Ken Grubb
    Puyallup, WA

  10. #269
    Join Date
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    Location
    Eastern North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by kengrubb View Post
    If everyone with a license to carry became conditioned during a traffic stop to tell cops "I've got a license to carry", and if the cops then became conditioned to relax a little upon hearing that, then I suspect there'd be a few dead cops out there who heard, "It's OK officer, I've got a license to carry" and it then became the last thing they heard before being shot dead by a wanted felon working on his third strike.

    .
    "Telling" a LEO that you have a carry permit is NOT the same thing as presenting the permit along with your other documentation.

    "A wanted felon on his third strike" will obviously NOT have a carry permit.

    bill

  11. #270
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    Jul 2009
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    South Carolina/Charleston
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    To y'all: Does anyone think that we have replied this thread to death? In SC, if you have your CCW with you, the law says you must offer your CCWP to an LEO--period--end of story. If you do not have your CCW or you live in a state where there are no requirements---it is up to you to decide--period--end of story. As more states get more detailed in their computer searches, drivers licenses and CCWP may show up in an LEO search, in which case, depending on the LEO, you may find no further discussion, or further suspicious discussion if you did not offer the CCWP, whether you were in possession of your CCW or not--period--end of story.

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