Inform the officer or not when concealed carry? - Page 36
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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by ConstitutionComeHome View Post
    My first post to these boards and a very interesting place to start (especially considering my name)! I apologize up front for the extremely long post ... it is a bad habit of mine. :(

    I am a FIRM believer in protecting what the constitution and many of it's amendments give and/or protect. That should be obvious by my name, but thought I would point it out. I would also like to note that I signed up and created this name BEFORE finding this thread (I actually use the name on several sites).

    I do not have a license yet as I have to get my record expunged (I was a bad 19 year old) first ... but it is already in the works.

    Anyways, the point of this post is to make note of several observations I have made while reading this thread. There are numerous comments that I applauded and was very proud to feel the same way. Here we go:

    First off, just because you have a constitutional right to do something, does NOT mean that you have to exercise that right. Exercising a right is not always the same as defending that right. Simply put, just because you have the ability to exercise a right does not mean that you need to, or should, do so. The founding fathers were all about protecting liberties, but I'd go as far as say that they were men of practicality as well (read: good common sense). While the majority of sheeple out there do not even understand or know their rights, just because you DO know them does not mean that you MUST exercise them.

    A simple example: There have been several mentions of refusing to let a LEO search a vehicle. While that is your RIGHT, it is not always (or even the majority of the time) the right thing to do. Why? Let me explain ...

    I drive like a nut. I love going fast and I have a sticker on both my truck and car's windshields that reminds people what lane they should be in (a reversed sticker that when read through a rearview mirror states: SLOWER TRAFFIC ----->). Obviously, I get pulled over quite a bit. I have had LEO's ask me many, many times if they could search my vehicle and unless they were being very rude to me, I allow them. I have nothing to hide and if I refuse we will both have to wait for a good long while ... just for a K-9 unit to arrive so my car can be sniffed (to try and get probable cause).

    My car has been searched an entire ONE time. I was 21, had a stripper in the car with me, had just left a strip club, it was around 3 in the morning, I had been speeding, and I gave permission to search. Every time that I have allowed a search, they have not actually searched (minus the above exception) because I was acting in a responsible way, did not hesitate to acquiesce to a search, and laughed when they asked the silly question about drugs, prostitutes, bombs, and guns.

    Also, LEOs that are complete jerks do not always 'stick it to you'. I've had my vehicles sniffed by many a dog and the cops never 'pretended' that the dog acted in a peculiar way. Not a single time. Please remember that every time I told the cop no it was because he was already acting like an ass. Could it happen and they pretend the dog smells something? Sure. Have I received several tickets because I made the officer wary and made his job harder and more frustrating? Yes.

    The fact is, most LEOs that ask for permission to search your vehicle are looking for guilty behavior and gauging your response and demeanor when asking the question. By refusing, that makes them cautious and maybe even mildly suspicious ...

    Common sense dictates that at some times, exercising a right isn't the wisest idea. The same applies to showing your license even when not required. It doesn't 'strip away' a right when you CHOOSE not to exercise it. In that case, it is simply a common courtesy. The cop will 'usually' appreciate the gesture as well as the knowledge that you are carrying. Sure, you would have appreciated not being pulled over ... but chances are high that the cop is just doing his job enforcing a law. Sometimes you just get pulled over, but kindness and courtesy beget kindness and courtesy and sometimes it takes a bigger man to start the cycle rather than meeting cold and indifferent with the like.

    Think of it this way: if everyone who was pulled over refused to allow a search, the chances are high, due to the progressive anti-constitutional society that dominates our current political parties, that the laws would quickly change in regards to probable cause. Seriously think about that and don't discount it while pointing at any great documents (constitution, bill of rights, etc) as they have proven time and time again that they are only as valid as the politicians want them to be at any given moment. Hell, just look at the FED, the income tax, the laws on firearms, etc.

    If you disagree with a thing, the best forum to address it is where you can change it (politics, voting booth, etc.) and probably not where it can just cause you discomfort at best (sitting on side of road with a LEO) and changes or defends nothing.

    Don't misunderstand me, I fully understand discomforting yourself to uphold a principle, and if you guys feel that the cost is worth the gesture ... that is your right. I just personally think that making a token gesture is not worth the cost, especially when in the grand scheme of things it changes nothing. It doesn't protect your freedoms, it doesn't change anything, it costs you time and money, and it makes that officer's job harder when he is just like us and wants to get home to his family. The founding father's, I like to think, would have wanted us to use those rights with common sense and save that extra time, effort, and money towards getting our country back to the way it should be.

    Sorry if my first post seems overly aggressive or offensive, but this is a topic that I feel VERY strongly about. The great thing about having rights is that we get to use them when we feel like as they are just what they sound like: rights!

    Just my 2 cents,

    ConstitutionComeHome
    You make some very good points.

    I think letting them know you are a ccw holder tells them you are a law abiding citizen. Maybe they won't go through the hassle of searching or even asking to search.

    To get a ccw you have to have a clean record, and they know that.
    Ed
    "The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

  2.   
  3. Many good and valid points, when discussing this issue with my friends who also carry, we generally agree on a few assumptions:

    1) When we carry, for some reason we tend to obey all of the traffic laws more stringently than when not carrying. While not a conscious effort, we just do, it might be an unconscious result of knowing the great responsibility we carry with a weapon strapped to us, so we compensate by obeying all traffic laws, leave the house with plenty of time to drive the speed limit, etc. Although, it could also be an unconscious fear of having to explain the weapon if pulled over for a traffic stop or safety check.

    2) If pulled over, I would freely provide my GFL (Georgia Firearms License) along with drivers license and insurance; if I am carrying or a weapon is in the car! If I am not carrying and there is no weapon in the car, then I only hand over my drivers license and insurance.

    I work at a facility where entry with a weapon is grounds for immediate dismissal, no right for appeal, no exceptions. Also, in Georgia, if the employer is assuming the risk for the safety of the workers, provides secure parking areas and armed security, the employer has the right to require no weapons on company property to include the secured parking areas. I work in one of these areas and for an employer who does not allow weapons in the workplace or on the property.

    While I believe I should be allowed to wear a weapon to work and secure in my car during the day, the law is on this employers side. So there has been one occasion for me to go through a Holiday automobile "safety" checkpoint where I only provided the drivers license and insurance paperwork, I was on my way home from work with no weapon on my person or in my automobile. No issue about not handing over or stating I was a GFL holder.

    I tend to believe I would not verbally mention I am carrying, I would just handing over my GFL, I believe any reasonable man when handed a GFL/CCW/etc. with a DL and Insurance would expect the driver to also be carrying the weapon, otherwise why pass over the gun permit?

    Letting law enforcement search my vehicle during a stop for a busted taillight or noise issue? I guess this would depend on what kind of day I was having, what mood I am in, if I was feeling especially ornery or not at the moment, and the officers demeanor and professionalism.

    If the officer is polite, professional and efficient (not wasting my time), I may allow an unwarranted search to comply with a request from a professional, but if the officer is delaying me, unprofessional, inventing excuses, looking for an excuse to escalate the stop, then I would not consent to an unwarranted search, and would be busy documenting everything going on in my little notebook which is always on my person, something to do with a lifelong battle with borderline ADD. I would stay and wait while they send for the dogs or whatever, and insure I had accurate times and details documented.

    That's what I would do, I'm 53 and I've not had anything more then a couple of speeding tickets back in the 70's. So I guess my perspective on things is a little different from the majority of those commenting here, I don't suffer fools, either in person or online. I've led a law-abiding life, only get caught up in those ridicules Holiday Safety Checkpoints occasionally.

    Just a few views to drive this thread along a bit.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Wish I understood how this thread keeps going. If you are out and about and are CC or with people who are CC all of you have accepted a responsibility that goes a great deal farther than your fellow citizens--you can kill someone with a concealed firearm if they pose an imminent danger--if that is not a good enough reason for you to inform an LEO and you want to stand behind the 2A and more of your "constitutional rights" have at it and enjoy. I will have been on my way a long time ago and satisfied that I put an LEO at ease. I can tell you that if I were an LEO and you fed me some of your 2A, I would make sure the my superior officer was present to ensure your 2A protection and if that takes a 1/2 hour so be it. If your state says so, you do it period/end of story---if your passenger is CC you would think common sense and most likely the law on the driver pertains to anyone in the car--the LEO wants to go home at night and anything that can disturb that thought is not a good idea and IMO is irresponsible.
    It's funny how not mentioning a firearm which is just as legal to carry as a cell phone all of a sudden develops into the bolded statements above. That type of overreaction is exactly why I'll just keep my mouth shut and not cause a non-issue to become an issue. BTW, it's more of a 4th amendment issue than it is a 2nd amendment issue anyway.

  5. #354
    No matter where I'm at I always let them know just because if I was in his shoes I would like to know also.

  6. #355
    +1! Best response yet. As a courtesy to LEO's I will always notify. I have talked to several and seen the posts, notifying sure seems the best way to approach this situation.

  7. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by cardinalfan View Post
    +1! Best response yet. As a courtesy to LEO's I will always notify. I have talked to several and seen the posts, notifying sure seems the best way to approach this situation.
    I still dont see how. If it's not mentioned is that any more dangerous?

  8. #357
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pele View Post
    Suppose you're out for a drive and you've got a tail light out... Or you're doing a bit above the speed limit and you just had a nice set of headers, exhaust pipes, and mufflers put on your car...

    Regardless, you're now on the side of the road with a blue light special behind you.

    Officer comes to the door and asks for your license and registration... Do you inform him that you are in possession of a concealed handgun or not?

    Does the matter that it's the sherrif, a local county officer, or a state trooper change your option?



    I think the DMV here flags your plates when you get a CCW. I've always thought it's a good idea to inform.

    "Officer, I understand you go through a lot of risk in your line of duty, I would like to minimize this risk and inform you that I am in possession of a Concealed Weapon permit and I do have the weapon on my person (or in the car) The weapon is on my left hip (or next to the emergency brake handle in the center console). My license and registration are in my left front pocket. How would you like to proceed?"
    As a retired officer...let me chime in.

    Forget the preamble about..."I understand you go through a lot of risk....." Blah blah blah...

    Simply say...."Officer, I just want to let you know I have a permit, and I am armed. My pistol is (where you have it). What would you like me to do next?"

    You have gotten to the point in a NON threatening manner. If you say..."I have a gun." even in the most mild mannered way a rookie officer will probably hear "I GOT A GUN!" I have seen it many times.

    By simply saying.."I just want to let you know...." You are letting the officer know information he will want to have, but in a manner that will not be misconstrued as remotely threatening. You are also letting him/her know where it is located, and ASKING the officer what action they want you to take next.

    Personally, once informed, I simply told them "Thank you for letting me know...if you don't play with yours, I won't have to play with mine. May I have your license and registration please."

    At this point I wouldn't even ask for their permit...they have already passed the "attitude test", and the chances of them getting more than a warning at this point were very slim to none...as I said, they passed the attitude test. If their license and registration werre current...I would simply tell them why I had pulled them over...told them to stop doing whatever naughty thing they happened to be doing, or if it was a simple defective equipment warning, I'd tell them to get it handled and have a good night.

    Remember, the more you talk, the more chance you have of talking yourself into trouble. "Inform politely without a bunch of extra expenditure of empathy for how hard our job is...get to the point....and we can make both our days shorter.

    "I just want to let you know, I have a permit, and I am armed. It is in a holster on my right hip. What would you like me to do next?"


    Note: Your interior lights should already be on...we appreciate that...and your hands should be ON TOP of the steering wheel...we appreciate that even more."

    Some jurisdictions mandate that you inform an officer on ANY contact that you are carrying...just being courteous and letting an officer know can't ever hurt. It's one of those things, that if he finds it on his own, he will start to wonder 1) Why you didn't tell him 2) What else might you be hiding 3) What were your intentions. If you are up front about it...the contact will go a LOT more smoothly. Remember...cops are guys doing a tough job and just want to go home at end of tour. I promise you that the VAST majority of us go on shift NEVER THINKING.."What can I do to stomp on someone's civil rights today? I'd have to say I've never known or worked with THAT GUY. Granted I have worked with some who walked a fine line...but they were eventually forced out, or hung themselves by being stupid. It is pretty Darminian in the world of LE...most of those types wind up with bad jackets, and short careers.

    Carrying a concealed weapon is not a privilige here in AZ...it is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. That's only true in 3 states...AZ, VT and AZ. I wish it was true in the other 47, but the fight has to go on. So when someone mentions the 2nd Ammendment....that's all well and good, but for the moment, we are stuck with local laws regarding the "privilige" of carrying a concealed weapon and when you obtain your permit to carry, you are also AGREEING an advance to abide by all the laws that go with the permit. So...just let the officer know. Less hassle for him and less hassle for you.

  9. #358
    Join Date
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    Hey Navy: I do understand exactly what you are saying and we will agree to disagree. I seem to have a little more faith in the LEOs I know and see and appreciate their situation. This is not a 2A or 4A situation, this is being a supporter of my local police dept, a graduate of our local citizens police academy, a volunteer at the police station, and the father in law of a police officer. Cell phone and firearm--give me a break--sarcastic dialog at best.

  10. #359
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Wish I understood how this thread keeps going. If you are out and about and are CC or with people who are CC all of you have accepted a responsibility that goes a great deal farther than your fellow citizens--you can kill someone with a concealed firearm if they pose an imminent danger--if that is not a good enough reason for you to inform an LEO and you want to stand behind the 2A and more of your "constitutional rights" have at it and enjoy. I will have been on my way a long time ago and satisfied that I put an LEO at ease. I can tell you that if I were an LEO and you fed me some of your 2A, I would make sure the my superior officer was present to ensure your 2A protection and if that takes a 1/2 hour so be it. If your state says so, you do it period/end of story---if your passenger is CC you would think common sense and most likely the law on the driver pertains to anyone in the car--the LEO wants to go home at night and anything that can disturb that thought is not a good idea and IMO is irresponsible.
    I would pretty much agree with that.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Navy: I do understand exactly what you are saying and we will agree to disagree. I seem to have a little more faith in the LEOs I know and see and appreciate their situation. This is not a 2A or 4A situation, this is being a supporter of my local police dept, a graduate of our local citizens police academy, a volunteer at the police station, and the father in law of a police officer. Cell phone and firearm--give me a break--sarcastic dialog at best.
    And let me ask you.... exactly what do you determine to be the difference between my lawfully carried firearm and my lawfully carried cell phone? The only person that has to worry about the difference between the two is the criminal who is attempting to do harm to me or my family. Other than to that specific person, there is no difference between the two inanimate objects carried in my pocket or on my belt.

    It is amazing to me how many people have come to believe that the firearm, by itself, poses threat or danger. It's not the gun. It's the person behind the gun. And you have to remember.... every single person that a police officer stops for a traffic stop is in possession and control of a 2000+ lb deadly weapon anyway.

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