Inform the officer or not when concealed carry? - Page 47
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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. #461
    Join Date
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    After having read several of these threads I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain breed of permitee that somehow views their permit as a "badge of honor". I've read all the drivel about permitees being "sheepdogs" and "certified good guys" and I've actually read threads where it was postulated that our permits make us adjunct police officers.

    I really believe that some permitees absolutely can not wait to whip out that "badge of honor" and show it off to some cop.

    I also believe that nothing short of getting face planted across the hood ofa cruiser is going to change their opinion.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

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  3. #462
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    I know quite a few LEOs. A few of them are personal friends of mine. Every single one of them said they would prefer to know when somebody is armed. It makes them much more relaxed because a CCW holder almost always = law-abiding citizen, and if somebody was going to try to harm a LEO it's highly unlikely that they'd tell the officer that they were armed.

    That's why I would inform an officer.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by antietam View Post
    A good way to periodically check tail, reverse and brake lights is to back up towards a store front window. But to really decrease the chance of getting pulled over for lighting problems is simply change them once a year before they fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    That's a good idea
    Until the first time you discover all of rear lights are actually out for some reason!

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    After having read several of these threads I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain breed of permitee that somehow views their permit as a "badge of honor". I've read all the drivel about permitees being "sheepdogs" and "certified good guys" and I've actually read threads where it was postulated that our permits make us adjunct police officers.

    I really believe that some permitees absolutely can not wait to whip out that "badge of honor" and show it off to some cop.

    I also believe that nothing short of getting face planted across the hood ofa cruiser is going to change their opinion.
    How do you REALLY feel, Treo? Don't hold back, let it all out, you'll feel better!

  5. #464
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    Recent threads about open carrying in public places, like Wal-Mart, has renewed in me a question about Indiana law WRT police powers vis-a-vis my Personal Protection Permit. If a person has a PPP, when is a police officer permitted to demand to inspect said PPP, as the Indiana page here on USACarry.com claims they have the authority to do.

    Since this is specific to Indiana, here is the relevant law:

    IC 34-28-5-3.5
    Refusal to identify self
    Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
    (1) name, address, and date of birth; or
    (2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
    to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.

    So, this seems to indicate that the police can demand that you ID yourself, and if you refuse, it's a Class C misdemeanor, but does this extend to divulging my PPP status? Being that it's not mentioned in the statute, I would say no.

    But wait, even this statute is limited to being asked for ID after being stopped for suspicion of an infraction or ordnance violation, so there would have to be at least the Terry stop criteria of Reasonable, Articulable Suspicion that I have committed, am committing, or am about to commit a criminal offense of some degree. Unarguably, if it were such a case, they have the authority to determine both, whether the person they suspect of criminal conduct is armed, and in addition, if that person is permitted to be armed in public. But still, does the condition on being charged with the Class C misdemeanor for refusing to ID oneself also govern whether you could be charged with the Class C misdemeanor for refusing to divulge whether or not you hold a PPP? Meaning if the Indiana police officer confronting you cannot give RAS, then manifestly, under the above statute, you cannot be charged with the Class C misdemeanor for refusing to ID yourself by one or the other of the listed means, but could you still be charged, or otherwise suffer legal ramifications, if the police officer cannot or does not give RAS and is demanding to see your PPP, and you refuse?

    Vis-a-vis the open carrying at Wal-Mart thread, which resulted in being accosted by police, if it happened in an Indiana Wal-Mart, could the police have the authority to arrest you on suspicion of violating IC 34-28-5-3.5 or other statute for refusing to divulge your PPP status, if they accost you for OCing in Indiana, being that carrying a firearm in public in any mode requires said PPP?

    I say no, if they cannot, at a minimum, cite RAS, and the fact that you are open carrying cannot be said RAS. It would be tantamount to pulling you over while you're driving for suspicion of operating a motor vehicle without a license. If you were speeding, changed lanes without signalling, or failed to stop at a stop sign, etc., then that would constitute RAS (actually, PC if witnessed by the police officer), but merely packing heat opening is not sufficient RAS to demand to see my ID, let alone my PPP.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  6. #465
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    Good points. A few fit this description. I carry with a certain trepidation of how the law, under which one is supposed to feel secure, is so interpretable by law enforcement at any given time. This forum proves it. We sought these legal permits for a myriad of reasons. But because the states have such varying statutes and conditions buried in thousands of law books, we ponder our own legal status while carrying.

  7. #466
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    I do not "ponder my own legal status" antietam. If I am stopped by an LEO doing his job for whatever reason, at least in SC, I am obligated (kindly leave out wordsmithing on the laws-everyone knows exactly what they mean except our wannabe lawyers on this forum) to inform. Even if I was not obligated, I would offer same only because (and contrary to the views of some of our more vocal conspiratorial anti LEO members) I respect his position and the dangers he can face as he deals with total strangers on the road. This has nothing, IMO, to do with 2A and all the other deflective arguments people seem to make--it has everything to do with basic common sense and dealing with a person who has a difficult enough job and who, at that moment, holds your freedoms in his hands because you have probably done something that is either an infraction or appears to be an infraction. If you don't like it, take it up with the Chief or your state representative, but to argue and give him attitude is not the way to go.

  8. #467
    +1!

  9. #468
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    My stand on this is well known, informing the officer that I am armed doesn't benefit me. CSPD generates a lot of revenue from traffic citations they do NOT (in my experience) give warnings. I don't believe showing my permit will stop them from ticketing me. Since I never inform unless specifically asked I've never been able to validate my theory.

    An Officer can't tell at a glance that I'm a good guy any more than I can tell he's not an anti that doesn't think any civilian should be armed ( I DO have direct experience W/ this that I can draw data from).

    Therefore it is in my best interest (IMO) not to inform, unless asked or the Officer asks me to step out of the vehicle.

    If I'm a "certified good guy" the mere possession of a firearm by me does NOT threaten the safety of the officer and should be of no concern. IMO the type of permitee that DOES inform is usually the same guy that calls himself a "sheepdog" and feels that his permit makes him some type of auxiliary LEO. They seem to feel that having a permit makes them a member of some elite fraternity and informing the cop is the secret handshake.

    If you choose to waive your rights (which is exactly what you do as soon as you open your mouth and start volunteering information) that's your business. I hope it works for you

    I DO NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE PRODUCTS ADVERTISED IN THIS POST
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  10. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    I do not "ponder my own legal status" antietam. If I am stopped by an LEO doing his job for whatever reason, at least in SC, I am obligated (kindly leave out wordsmithing on the laws-everyone knows exactly what they mean except our wannabe lawyers on this forum) to inform. Even if I was not obligated, I would offer same only because (and contrary to the views of some of our more vocal conspiratorial anti LEO members) I respect his position and the dangers he can face as he deals with total strangers on the road. This has nothing, IMO, to do with 2A and all the other deflective arguments people seem to make--it has everything to do with basic common sense and dealing with a person who has a difficult enough job and who, at that moment, holds your freedoms in his hands because you have probably done something that is either an infraction or appears to be an infraction. If you don't like it, take it up with the Chief or your state representative, but to argue and give him attitude is not the way to go.
    Bravo!

  11. #470

    Thumbs down Another CCW Badge thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    After having read several of these threads I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain breed of permitee that somehow views their permit as a "badge of honor". I've read all the drivel about permitees being "sheepdogs" and "certified good guys" and I've actually read threads where it was postulated that our permits make us adjunct police officers.

    I really believe that some permitees absolutely can not wait to whip out that "badge of honor" and show it off to some cop.

    I also believe that nothing short of getting face planted across the hood ofa cruiser is going to change their opinion.
    This thread is treading dangerously close to becoming another CCW Badge thread.

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