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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post

    In any case, Carry more than one gun. Declare One. Life ahead will not be pretty. Be Prepared.
    If I am reading your post correctly, this is a really, really bad idea. I can't think of any way a scenario where you declare one weapon to the officer and he finds another that you didn't tell him about ends well.

    That's the kind of thing that gets you face planted

    Originally Posted by B2Tall: Is that the only reason somebody would be supportive of LEOs or any other public servant?? How 'bout this - I'm a considerate person and I appreciate what those people do. Isn't that reason enough?? Does that make me some sort of kiss-ass?? If it does then I say "good for me". I like it. In addition to police officers, I think public school teachers and firefighters are some of the most underappreciated folks in this country and if there's something simple I can do to make somebody's job a little easier, I'll do it every time.
    I don't need to be a jerk to the police to protect my rights and I'm certainly not advocating that anyone do so. The quickest way I can think of to find out a cop is an anti is to needlessly inform him that you are armed. Once you've opened that door you can't close it.

    FWIW I haven't been pulled over in about a year. The Trooper was very professional, He walked up to my car and said "Good afternoon sir, my name is Trooper so and so. The reason I stopped you today is for speeding. I clocked you at 64 in a 50 MPH zone. That's 14 miles over the speed limit, you will be cited for your speed today. May I have you License, registration and POI please? " before I even had a chance to open my mouth I gave him what he asked for (and nothing more) and I was back on the road in about 10 minutes
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

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  3. #492
    HI all...first post I can't speak for any other state..but here in Pennsylvania, concealed weapons permit are issued at a county level,by running a DL or tag that info will not show up. The only way of confirming the permit is to contact the county that it was issued in. As a courtesy I would inform the LEO of my permit and location of weapon on my body or in vehicle. As far as the reciprocity factor when traveling I carry copies of state laws and the agreements of the states involved,this may give the LEO a better idea of what I am doing with a weapon.

    Thanks

    Allen
    Bucks Co.PA

  4. #493
    I was coming out of Michigan on M60 west of Spring Arbor when an MSP got me doing 70 in a 55 he was going in the opposite direction so I Immediately pulled over and waited for him. He thanked me for pulling over and asked for my Lic and reg but the first thing I gave him was my Life time Indiana permit as I know Michigan Law and I was carrying my 380. He thanked me again for giving him my permit and telling him I was carrying and where it was. Bottom line NO TICKET and just gave me a warning and now when we go to Michigan on M60 I put it on cruise 5 over because he said slow down.

  5. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I don't need to be a jerk to the police to protect my rights and I'm certainly not advocating that anyone do so. The quickest way I can think of to find out a cop is an anti is to needlessly inform him that you are armed. Once you've opened that door you can't close it.
    You insinuated that somebody who informs a police officer that they're carrying is just a suck-up trying to curry favor, or some sort of LE lapdog. I'm letting you know that there are other reasons why somebody might do this.

  6. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Avrohom View Post
    In a training course I took last year here in Georgia they taught that you keep your hands in full view on the wheel and say to the officer, "I am a CC and my permit is in my pocket" and wait for him to respond. It is courtesy and safe!
    Problem with an instructor saying this....is that anybody who is new to the gun world may take it as "the law says you must"...when in reality in GA there is no such law...

    One can be courteous without mentioning firearms.

  7. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    You insinuated that somebody who informs a police officer that they're carrying is just a suck-up trying to curry favor, or some sort of LE lapdog. I'm letting you know that there are other reasons why somebody might do this.
    I said that might be one reason and I think it was a legitimate observation. I said
    After having read several of these threads I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain breed of permitee that somehow views their permit as a "badge of honor".
    And those people certainly do exist. They are the same folks that will postulate that the fact that you have a CHP imputes a "duty to respond" to the permitee and they like to quote Grossman's Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves a lot.

    If you somehow felt that I was calling you a suck up I appologize
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. If I am reading your post correctly, this is a really, really bad idea. I can't think of any way a scenario where you declare one weapon to the officer and he finds another that you didn't tell him about ends well.
    You make a good point, Treo. I didn't say it was without risk. However, speaking as an Extreme Libertarian and looking at the times ahead, I think the risk of being truly helpless before some unfriendly stranger with a uniform is more dangerous than "forgetting" you had another gun. It's probably also a "bad idea" to have a handcuff key hidden on one's person, perhaps one made of non-ferrous material. But some would consider it wise preparedness. That person in uniform may turn out to be your friend. He may turn out to be your enemy. If it's the latter, making oneself totally helpless is a bad plan. Face it, my friend, if there ever was a time of good cops, it's coming to an end. Our politician ruling class tasks LEO's with the same two jobs that occupied the Sheriff of Nottingham. And their methods become more frightening with each passing year.

    I truly wish I could say something different. But I'm confident I'll hear little that's different from my retiring LEO friends. Times change. It will get worse before it gets better.

    May the Peace of this Season be upon you. But always be prepared.
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  9. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I said that might be one reason and I think it was a legitimate observation. I said

    And those people certainly do exist. They are the same folks that will postulate that the fact that you have a CHP imputes a "duty to respond" to the permitee and they like to quote Grossman's Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves a lot.

    If you somehow felt that I was calling you a suck up I appologize
    Actually it was "Antietam" that made the remark about people who inform an officer being "jingoistic followers hoping for life advancement". When you quoted me it was from my response to him. My bad. No need to apologize in any case. I'm not offended.

    Recently somebody posted that all it would take was one face-plant into the hood of a car courtesy of a LEO and I might change my mind. I guess it would all depend on if I deserved a face-plant. Some people definitely do although they might argue otherwise. In response I say that those people might feel differently if they've ever had their chestnuts pulled from the fire by a LEO. I have.

  10. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Recently somebody posted that all it would take was one face-plant into the hood of a car courtesy of a LEO and I might change my mind. I guess it would all depend on if I deserved a face-plant. Some people definitely do although they might argue otherwise. In response I say that those people might feel differently if they've ever had their chestnuts pulled from the fire by a LEO. I have.
    And I could just as easily respond that you might feel differently if you ever had a bad cop try to roast your chestnuts.

    Long story short, we're 50 pages into a thread that is years old and no one is budging an inch. Perhaps there is a more productive use of our time
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  11. But before we all go and find something better to do with our time let me again (?) put in my two cents worth. Whenever (I mean WHENEVER) I am nose to toes with a LEO or security or border guard or whatever, especially in the dark (and we all know what we need to do in the dark right?) and am going to hand over ID - the first thing I do is state that I hold a concealed carry permit and am/am not carrying. If the firearm/weapon is in the vehicle in storage (I have two minisafes bolted into the back of the SUV) I state where the weapons are, if they are loaded and that they are locked in a minisafe securely.

    I think the key is 'no surprises'. I'd rather have a face plant than a swiss cheese experience. As recent events have shown us, someone hollering "gun" or requesting backup for a guy with a gun is likely to lead to something less than a desirable outcome, safe or otherwise.

    In the five years that I have been carrying, I have been in such encounters several times, have always shown the greatest of courtesy and have always received the greatest of courtesy and appreciation in return. In fact, many if not most times I just get a "thank you" and I am on my way. Once I had them ask me to open the back of the SUV when the guns were stowed, they saw the locked safes and never even asked me to unlock them. I was on my way 5 seconds later.

    That is MY personal take on things - I have numerous LEO friends and that has been their advice to me all along the way and I take that as good advice.

    I'm still waiting to see what the heck happened at that Walmart in Nevada when the upstanding guy got drilled like swiss cheese. I'm guessing "gun!" followed by the carrier going to pull up his shirt or something to show them it was holstered and that he had a permit for it and adrenaline took over. I can't say that I would have reacted (on either side) any differently at that time, but I sure know the rules now. Hands in the air or behind your head or turn around and back towards my voice carries a whole new meaning to me now. It carried weight looking down the barrel of a .45 or a shotgun in any event, but it is DRILLED into my subconscious now and my son and I even practice same at the range as part of our IPSC/IDPA drills.

    Courtesy and absolute understanding of the many LEO mindsets that you may face are absolutely essential to an encounter ending well for both parties.

    I 'sorta' speak from experience I suppose.... all my encounters have been good and indeed have been pleasant encounters, but there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the LEO on the other end was prepared to take whatever reflexive action their terms of engagement dictated, training notwithstanding.

    And anyone who has witnessed a single volley begin a string of volleys with no target in sight (or indeed existing) understands that training is not the panacea in these situations, on either end of the deal. Common sense and action/reaction plays a huge part of the interaction.

    I am grateful that we have the LE communities that we do and I am also grateful that we (son and I) have taken the training that we have and understand our own terms of engagement. Things, however, do have a seemingly undesirable way of going off track in a big hurry if a small error is made and it is our job to avoid that happening. Thus, my personal policies and terms of engagement.... they may not be yours but they are indeed mine.

    I'm the guy that has had an attempted carjacking in broad daylight in Orlando FL (home of Mickey!) and two attempted home invasions and I can assure you that ANYONE entering my locked home without identifying themselves and being invited in are going to leave feet first henceforth. I am just so very glad that, although prepared to use lethal force the moment the bad guys entered my home, I did not have to as they were taken down at gunpoint by local LE.

    It is and at the same time, is not, a simple subject to discuss but certainly is a subject that each and every one of us that carries or owns a lethal weapon needs to postulate on at length and understand what our terms of engagement are depending on where we are. And then we need to get the training and practice under our belts to undertake 'the business' should we need to. There can be nothing worse than needing a gun and not having one - neighbors around the corner learned that the hard way. A few weeks ago he had a home invasion. He is dead and his wife was likely raped and left for dead but survived. I can only hope that he did not have to watch. The point being, that if you are going to carry, understand the rules. And practice them.

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