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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    I have no desire to be pulled over and I have no desire to have my vehicle searched. Not because I have something to hide (I don't) but because it's inconvenient. That being said, I believe that being cooperative will only end the situation quicker and get me on my way sooner. I will gladly take off the "tough-guy, armchair constitutional lawyer" hat and let the LEO go about his business if it means he's gonna hand me back my documents and tell me to "have a nice day" sooner rather than later. Remember - "Probable Cause" is a massive gray area and I'll put my money on the judge siding with the LEO if it ever came to that.

    The cop can easily (and legally) make the situation much worse for you than it already is. Do you know that in most (if not all) states, a LEO can write you a ticket for having a license plate holder that obscures even the smallest piece of lettering on the plate?? Not just the plate # but any of the lettering such as the name of the issuing state. That's just one example of what they could do if they were so inclined. There are a lot of other things they could do that are well within their legal power to do. Why give them a reason to inconvenience you even more?
    Isn't it obvious, yet, that nobody is going to change any other's decision, and both sides know the reasons for the other side's decision ad nauseum? Good grief.


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  3. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Isn't it obvious, yet, that nobody is going to change any other's decision, and both sides know the reasons for the other side's decision ad nauseum? Good grief.

    Why should it bother you that we're continuing this discussion? There are 1000s of other threads on this site if you're tired of this one. Thanks.

  4. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Robert Jackson one of the most noted jurists of the 20th century is quoted as saying "The intent of the 5th amendment is primarily to protect the innocent from unwarranted prosecution "

    Another Jackson quote

    "Any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to police under any circumstances."
    Outstanding quote but not always practical in the real world. Let's face it - most people who "take the fifth" have something to hide, or at least they appear to. Act like prey and you become prey. If the LEO believes you're acting suspiciously or overly defensive he/she may very well want to investigate further.

    I'll throw a quote out there - to paraphrase The Bard...."Discretion is the better part of valor". I prefer to fight my battles from a position of advantage. In a traffic stop the LEO has all the advantages in spite of what you might think. If I feel I've been wronged I'll press the matter in a better place and time for me.

    Vengeance is a dish best served cold

  5. #524
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    Torontogunguy stated “in many states when you obtain a CCW, CFP or whatever, you give up the rights to reasonable search and seizure in any event. Read the small print.”
    You’ve made the claim I challenge you to cite the statutes that say that having a CHP is an automatic waiver of your fourth amendment rights

    B2Tall stated Outstanding quote but not always practical in the real world. Let's face it - most people who "take the fifth" have something to hide, or at least they appear to. Act like prey and you become prey. If the LEO believes you're acting suspiciously or overly defensive he/she may very well want to investigate further.
    YouTube - Dont Talk to Police

    First I want to recommend you take 48 minutes and watch the above video if he can’t convince you I never will.

    That said a lot of this is a matter of opinion if you choose to waive your rights in a police encounter that’s your business I have got out of tickets because the cop didn’t radar me and I refused to admit guilt when he asked “Do you know how fast you were going?” Had I said “Yes Officer I was doing 78” (65 zone) It would have been an admission of guilt and the case would have been a done deal. I wasn’t a jerk I simply responded “Clearly, fast enough to get your attention Officer.” I’m aware it was a minor issue but it saved me 130 $ plus the court date and my insurance going up. And yes I was guilty but what if I were innocent? “Do you know why I pulled you over?” “Speeding?” you just admitted guilt no matter how fast you were going.

    There are extreme examples as well, people that have consented to a search and had the cops trash their car looking for dope and leave it in pieces or people that have consented to the drug dog and got muddy paw prints all over their new white interior. Do you think the police are going to recompense you to have your car detailed?

    I choose to exercise my rights in a police encounter. I’ve been through interrogation they ask you the same questions over and over and over, they jump on any little deviation from one answer to the next. They lie to you and tell you they have eye witnesses that are ready to testify that they saw you do it.

    Here’s the deal, you read my story about being arrested I’m sure. I was 100% innocent. It doesn’t matter what the cop believed, I was. If I had been stupid enough to confess as he requested he would have written up the statement, had me sign it and turned it over to the Provost Marshall (DA) and his promise to recommend no punishment would have gone out the window ( the cop has no say in how or if you’re prosecuted) I would have gone to an article 32 hearing (arraignment) and a General Court Martial screaming all the way that I had only confessed because to help the cop out and it wouldn’t have mattered one whit. My signed confession (To a crime I hadn’t committed) would have nailed me and I would have been found guilty.

    You can talk odds all you want. my odds of having a bad run in w/ the police were 100% and all of that hassle could have been avoided had I simply asked for a lawyer as soon as they put the cuffs on me that’s why I won’t ever agree to be questioned again.

    I'm not special , there's noting in the world but luck keeping yo from finding yourself in the (relatively) same situation
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  6. #525
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    First of all being courteous doesn't mean admitting to anything. It just means being courteous.

    I watched about 35 min of the video. The guy doesn't exactly shatter any stereotypes about fast-talking lawyers who speak quite a bit but say very little. He says "he will never talk to any police officer under any circumstances". That's pretty irresponsible. I hope he's never the victim of a crime and any potential witnesses don't take his stance of never talking to police.

    This video deals with people who are suspected of committing serious crimes, guilty or not. People that are being interrogated. He doesn't mention being pulled over for speeding or for having a faulty tail light as this thread deals with. A number of his examples are of people who lied to the police about various things and got caught. Again, we're talking about informing an officer during a minor traffic incident. If I was being questioned as a possible suspect in a serious crime as were all of this guy's examples then I would have a lawyer present. I don't consider "sir, do you know how fast you were going?" to be an interrogation in a serious crime. Regardless, my answer to that question will always be the same - "I don't know, officer".

    This video really has nothing to do with what we're discussing here.

  7. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    he says "he will never talk to any police officer under any circumstances". That's pretty irresponsible. I hope he's never the victim of a crime and any potential witnesses don't take his stance of never talking to police.
    Why does this question keep coming up? Common sense is desirable, huge difference between not answering a cop's questions and maling a report of a crime witnessed.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Why does this question keep coming up? Common sense is desirable, huge difference between not answering a cop's questions and maling a report of a crime witnessed.
    Common sense - that's exactly what tells me that the video you posted has nothing to do with this thread.

    He's talking about people being interrogated with regards to serious crimes. All of his examples were assaults, murders, etc. or of people who were dumb enough to lie to the cops and get caught when being questioned about serious crimes.

    We're talking about being couteous and cooperative during a routine traffic stop or something similar.

    Even Professor Motormouth pointed out a couple of times in the video that he believes the vast majority of LEOs are honest and wouldn't lie.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    We're talking about being couteous and cooperative during a routine traffic stop or something similar.
    Personally, I am courteous and cooperative during routine traffic stops and other encounters with LEO, and it's probably gotten me out of more than one ticket. Still didn't ever mention my firearm or CPL, though.

  10. #529
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    On the irritating occasion that I get stopped, I always have license, CWP, registration, proof of insurance and the kitchen sink if needed. They always ask about firearms (they'd ask that question anyway) and I always give them the location(s). Fortunately I've never gotten stopped with more than two handguns in the car, so they had absolutely no reason to freak out. All of my encounters (except for the most recent) have always been very amicable and friendly, and they never act like it's anything to worry about.

    The way I see it, honesty and openness is the best policy. I'm not doing anything and have nothing to hide, so I'm willing to give them reasonable amounts of information. I wouldn't consent to an unconstitutional search, but voluntarily handing over a state-issued ID is within reason.
    Silent Running, by Mike and the Mechanics

  11. #530
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    It's amazing how many on this forum left-handedly demean the Constititution and insult those who enthusiastically support or even mention it. They rush in to cajole authority. They comprise the same personalities who turned on family members in the old Soviet Union for speaking against communism. The focus of the U.S. Constitution is not those sworn to obey and uphold it [but actually despise it], rather the ordinary citizen. I think the video is great testimony to those who are purists, constitutionally. If they er, it is on the side of fundamentals and that great document, under fire, which will ultimately stand, but not without bloodshed. Constitutional purists are good people; more trustworthy than those looking for a fresh way to proclaim their respect authority.

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