Inform the officer or not when concealed carry? - Page 9
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Thread: Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by rayven View Post
    Yes, but they *CHOSE* to put themselves in a dangerous situation by becoming a LEO.
    And I thank them for it. It is something that most of us wouldn't have the stomach for it. God bless them.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayven
    And if I have any encounters with the police, you can be all but assured it is not by my choice. They are stopping me, not the other way around.
    Speeding? Your choice... Illegal turn? Failure to fully stop? Your choice... Talking on a cell phone while driving? Your choice (may or may not be illegal where you are, but may cause other issues)... Bad headlight or taillight? Not necessarily your choice, bit it IS your responsibility. The above listed are the only reasons I have ever had to have an LEO encounter that I did not request, and they were all the result of choices I made.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayven
    So why should I help someone or show them any extra courtesy if they are about to make my wallet lighter or put me in handcuffs? Makes no sense to me.
    First of all, that courtesy just MIGHT let you keep your wallet the same weight it was. To use one of your quotes, "happens all the time". I can back that up, because I personally have had at least 4 experiences of that over the years.
    Secondly, if something is done or actions that would precipitate the use of handcuffs, chances are pretty good that it is with sufficient cause.

    OK, I'm done trying to justify my feelings... We are each entitled to our own. I just want to say that (personal opinion) there are just as many CCW holders with poor attitudes than there are LEO's. Lets not judge the majority of either by the actions of the minority.
    Carry proudly, carry responsibly, act courteously...(live long and prosper, etc.)

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockwerks View Post
    Your stance is part of the problem in this country, whether you wish the encounter is a moot point, they deserve your respect as any one does.
    And I would show respect. But if someone in a position of authority is depriving me of my freedom to keep moving without interference, I will only do what is nominally required by law.

    Why exactly should I do more for those in power? I would remain friendly and respectful, but I'm not about to give up my right to privacy just because someone with a badge would like me to. If I have no obligation to do something, then I have the natural right of choice. I choose not to inform, as is my right which has been confirmed by my state law.

    I honestly don't understand why someone would have a problem with another private citizen proudly standing up for his/her rights. Especially on a web forum that advocates the rights of those who carry firearms.

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by queball View Post
    ...snip...
    First: no, I would not be OK with a cop passing my fiancee who is stranded on the side of the road. However, if he does, it's perfectly legal. He has no obligation to help / protect. The Supreme Court has already weighed in on this issue. Same goes with the binoculars guy outside my daughter's apartment. Me being OK with something means nothing.

    Second: Many cops, I agree, do consider it their duty to "protect and serve". However, at any time, they can abandon that idea and ignore either part. What you apparently didn't understand from my post is that I'm referring to what the law states regarding police duty. Personally, I consider it my duty to help those in need, but I'm not required to do it. Same with the police, regardless of what the individual LEO thinks.

    Third and last: LEOs really are on the side of LEOs in almost every situation. I know this from news, internet, and personal experience. A few members of my family were members of the police in Philadelphia, and whenever there was a question of police brutality or legal mistakes by other cops, the "Blue Code of Silence" would spring into effect. Whether or not you believe it, the police almost always back each other up even at the expense of civilians.

    And no, I'm not paranoid. I'm a realist. The existence of a police force is a necessary evil. I know how corrupt it can get -- I've seen it myself. So I stand up for my rights. Apparently to you, standing up for my rights in the face of growing corruption in government is paranoia. So be it.

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by queball View Post
    And I thank them for it. It is something that most of us wouldn't have the stomach for it. God bless them.


    Speeding? Your choice... Illegal turn? Failure to fully stop? Your choice... Talking on a cell phone while driving? Your choice (may or may not be illegal where you are, but may cause other issues)... Bad headlight or taillight? Not necessarily your choice, bit it IS your responsibility. The above listed are the only reasons I have ever had to have an LEO encounter that I did not request, and they were all the result of choices I made.



    First of all, that courtesy just MIGHT let you keep your wallet the same weight it was. To use one of your quotes, "happens all the time". I can back that up, because I personally have had at least 4 experiences of that over the years.
    Secondly, if something is done or actions that would precipitate the use of handcuffs, chances are pretty good that it is with sufficient cause.

    OK, I'm done trying to justify my feelings... We are each entitled to our own. I just want to say that (personal opinion) there are just as many CCW holders with poor attitudes than there are LEO's. Lets not judge the majority of either by the actions of the minority.
    Carry proudly, carry responsibly, act courteously...(live long and prosper, etc.)
    Sorry. We just have to disagree then. To me, the government exists at the will of the people -- not the other way around. I shouldn't have to prove anything to any government agency, including the police, at any time -- they should ALWAYS carry the burden of proof. If I'm carrying legally, I'm not a threat, and I have every right to deny the police the information that I have a legal firearm until they have evidence against me that I'm breaking a firearm law.

    I like my rights and so I stand up and fight for them. But hey, everyone has their own opinions and how they feel they should handle various situations. Good luck to you -- carry proudly.

  6. #85
    I do not currently have my CCW, but I intend to someday. In the mean time, these are the questions that I like to ask myself ahead of time. I am going to have to agree with Rayven, for the most part. If I were carrying, and it is not relelvant to the LEO encounter, then why put them on edge. This might piss some people off, but I do not consider LEO's to be some kind of super men. Yes they do a dangerous job, and yes they do deserve respect for that, however LEO's, just like any other demographic are going to be representative of the rest of society. And by that I mean that even in the LEO community, there are smart ones, there are not so smart ones, there are nice ones, and not so nice ones, the list goes on and on. Can you tell right off in an encounter which one you got? Again why bring it up if it's not relevant.

    Also here in MO I believe that not only is the CCW linked to Drivers Liscense, but is also a DL endorsement, so If I hand my liscense over end the LEO is worth his salt, then he should be able to make that determination.

    I hope this doesn't seem derogitory towards LEO's, I have had few experiences with LEO's, but even fewer where I felt I got dealt with squarely.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by rayven View Post
    Sorry. We just have to disagree then. To me, the government exists at the will of the people -- not the other way around. I shouldn't have to prove anything to any government agency, including the police, at any time -- they should ALWAYS carry the burden of proof. If I'm carrying legally, I'm not a threat, and I have every right to deny the police the information that I have a legal firearm until they have evidence against me that I'm breaking a firearm law.

    I like my rights and so I stand up and fight for them. But hey, everyone has their own opinions and how they feel they should handle various situations. Good luck to you -- carry proudly.
    To a cop your attitude could be seen as a threat, good luck you are going to need it

  8. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by rockwerks View Post
    To a cop your attitude could be seen as a threat, good luck you are going to need it
    The only attitude the cop will see is that of silence, or politely answering his questions. How is that threatening?
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #88

    Thumbs up

    Ditto Red Hat.
    Preserve the 2nd amendment and firearms, THE NRA NEEDS YOU NOW!
    May the happiest day of your past, be the saddest day or your future.
    Today is the very first day of the rest of your life!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by utimmer43 View Post
    The only attitude the cop will see is that of silence, or politely answering his questions. How is that threatening?
    That is a major difference from what your original post states.

  11. This really is pretty simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhorse View Post
    Hear, hear queball!! Having come up in a family of LEO's, I was taught to respect all LEO's. Keep your hands in plain sight, answer all questions "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir." Even if you choose to disagree - disagree RESPECTFULLY. That being said, if a LEO chooses to disarm me for the duration of our transaction, so be it. HE still has a gun, and I sincerely doubt that someone is going to take him out, then me, in those few minutes. Yes, there are a few jerks working in Law Enforcement - it's inevitable, the law of odds and all that - but even if you don't respect the man wearing it, respect the badge.
    +++ to Ironhorse and Queball and Redhat and the others who aren't posturing or playing the macho card


    What is in your best interest in a traffic stop? In order - not get shot, not get arrested, not get hassled, not get a ticket. How? It isn't rocket science. Hard to believe so many of you would deliberately set the stage for a potential nasty encounter by insisting on secrecy. You keep your gun secret from the public and the BGs, but not from a LEO in a personal encounter. Period. If you are a legal CCW, your rights are secure. What to do?

    #1 - Obey the law. If you must inform, do so.
    # 2 Even if you don't legally have to, do it anyway. It is axiomatic if you follow # 3.
    #3 Be respectful. LEOs have very tough jobs, but i'm glad they are there doing them. They deal with too many jerkoffs (not to mention criminals) so make the exchange easier for both of you by being pleasant.In other words, let them know you're one of the good guys by telling them up front what they wonder EVERY TIME they approach a car.
    #4 Keep your hands on top of the steering wheel until they are at your window. They WILL appreciate it. Move slowly when you do move. Have your wallet in hand if you can without fumbling around in the car while they are approaching - it might look like you're hiding stuff (or grabbing a weapon? )even if you're just going for your registration and proof of insurance. Otherwise leave it in your pocket for now.
    # 5 Greet them. Hello officer. What seems to be the trouble?
    #6 Hand them your DL and CCW together. Tell him that 2nd one is my carry permit, i am carrying, (where it is - right hip, small of back, etc). If doing so might expose your weapon before you can hand them your CCW, tell them before you reach for your wallet. Go slow. Not using the word GUN is really a simple, but excellent, idea.
    #7. If they insist on taking possession of your gun, agree pleasantly(even though this will be the hardest thing you ever let someone do), ask what they want you to do, and offer to help safe it if they are not familiar with the weapon. Especially if you carry with one in the chamber, tell them.
    #8. If things get worse from that point, it's on the LEO. Get the badge #, ask for a supervisor to come to the stop.
    # 9 otherwise, take your warning or your ticket, take your weapon back as applicable, and get going.

    Remember that every single time an officer makes a traffic stop, he is at full alert watching you and assessing whether you are a threat. Every single time. Too darn many get gunned down making a simple traffic stop. So be an un-threat.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants ... for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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