Another Case Of C & C Gone Wrong? - Page 2
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Thread: Another Case Of C & C Gone Wrong?

  1. Shooter was wrong on two counts. One, when your carrying a weapon, you avoid conflict not seek it. From the article it sounds as if he was the initial instigator of the incident. Second, he left the scene and never called 911. He should have immediately called 911 and stayed at the scene. Being the shooter he was suspect, leaving the scene made him a look guilty.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SCbuckeye12 View Post
    Shooter was wrong on two counts. One, when your carrying a weapon, you avoid conflict not seek it. From the article it sounds as if he was the initial instigator of the incident. Second, he left the scene and never called 911. He should have immediately called 911 and stayed at the scene. Being the shooter he was suspect, leaving the scene made him a look guilty.
    I agree 100%. According to the article, the shooter initiated the argument, therefore, he became the "Aggressor" in this case. Does not look good for him...
    Last edited by takemine2; 08-07-2009 at 10:26 PM. Reason: missed wording

  4. #13
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    So if I understand this right and I obviously dont have all the facts but it seems as though yall are saying that if you are carring then you cant speak your mind and tell some they are stupid/being dumb (maybe not in so nice of words) because then you become the aggressor if they wanna fight you for some words said? Just curious, let me spin off this with a what if and keep in mind in GA your vehicle is considered your personal property under the castle doctrine. Me being 5'7" 160 and Billy Bob (6'2" because that was used) is stopped at a green light, him being in front of me and I honk my horn, he then gets out, and being a man of considerable size, coming at me to "punch me in the face" I have no right to draw my weapon? I have to disagree and feel I have the right and even if miller did call the guy an idiot and tell him to move there was nothing that waranted a punch in the face if it were only words exchanged. As for leaving the scene he shouldnt have and doesnt FL have a civil protection in the castle doctrine? Again let me know if I am in left field or not. Another question is dont FL have a stand your ground law meaning you dont "have" to retreat first? It seems to me that the only crime here is fleeing the scene and possibly having the firearm. I know in GA you dont have to have a CC to have a loaded firearm in your vehicle, is FL the same way? If so no crime there either. This seems like Vigeant tried to be a big man and got put in his place. Im sorry for the family but seems he was in the wrong and is one reason I carry. I am also sorry for Miller who has to live with knowing he took another mans life, rough on the mind but easier then another coma.
    "The purpose of war is not to die for your country. The purpose of war is to ensure that the other guy dies for his country." - General Patton

  5. #14
    I have tried to read all the articles on this and most of the posted comments including those in several papers. There is much more to it than what most people are jumping on and making comparisions to. I may be all worng on this but it is what I have been able to find from my reading.

    Mr. Vigeant left Summerville for a couple of days of golf with friends and got to Myrtle Beach late. He decided to stop by McDonalds instead of Hooters for something to eat.

    While at the drive through Mr. Miller pulled up behind him.

    For some unknown reason Miller becam impatient and started honking his horn and cussing at Vigeant.

    Vigeant may have been cussing back a Miller. That may have been probable but I don't know and not really part of it.

    Vigeant finally pulled up to allow Miller to go on through. I think Miller pulled up enough to either place or get his order. he may not have even pulled up any but he is still yelling and cussing at Vigeant.

    From witnesses reports Vigeant gets out of his car and walks over to Miller's car.

    Wintesses hearthem arguing, a gun shot, see Vigeant stagger back to his car and Miller peal out of the place via the route the Vigeant had left open for him at a very high rate of speed.

    Cops are called and Vigeant is pronounced dead.

    Cops notify Vigeant's wife of his death and tell her that he went over to Miller's car to tell him to calm down and ask what is his problem. They tell his wife that they have a suspect but have not arrested him.

    Cops locate Miller and make arrest the next day.

    Miller claims that Vigeant punched him in the face and was the reason that he shot him.

    Miller's family claims that the reason that he shot him was because Miller had been beaten half to death several years ago after taking on several guys down at Boardwalk at the Beach.

    Points to note:
    In SC for Castle Doctrine or Stand Your ground you must meet four criteria:
    You must be in a place where you have a right to be. (Miller had a right to be there but he was out on probation so I don't know if that removes his right to carry a firearm with or without a CWP or not)
    You must be at no fault for starting the action. (Miller definitely started the altercation but only verbally. The rest is going to be up to a jury)
    You must not be doing anything illegal. (Whether Miller was carrying a gun illegally I do not know)
    The amount of force used must be in proportion. (This is still going to be for the jury.)

    Additional Point:
    The only one saying that Vigeant threw punches is Miller and that came out after the arrest. Until then there was no mention af any punches being thrown, just a bunch of yelling and cussing.

  6. #15
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    Sorry but I meant SC not FL in the above comment. Even with what I have read it all says that Miller may have started the argument or not and I just know how I would react if some guy came to my car in anger (obviously I dont have all the facts and most of us dont). Even If miller was yelling at Vigeant Vigeant was the one that had the chance to leave before Miller did he prooved that by pulling out of his was and getting out of his car.
    "The purpose of war is not to die for your country. The purpose of war is to ensure that the other guy dies for his country." - General Patton

  7. #16
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    I reside in Massachusetts. And with that typed if this incident had happened here there would be hell to pay.. Fox news would have a field day and the gun control folks would be ready to lynch someone and take away their firearms...We have castle doctrine law here as well, but there is no mention of vehicle occupants in the laws that I have read . I'll have to ask a few friends I have here in law enforcement what the rule is. I'm sure that the beating from the past was a factor in the thought process of the shooter, but still it's a tough sell. I do believe that anyone deservers the right to be safe and free from harassment and or physical threats while occupying a vehicle. I was not there to witness the events that preceded the shooting so speculation it is. It sounds like a case of two people who instead of keeping their cool and not escalating aggression and violence, decided to make many mistakes that ended in poor judgment and a deadly decision. I have found that with the right to carry a firearm a greater degree of patience and tolerance is required and in my case has brought to me greater restraint in making decisions regarding folks who have more attitude than brains.
    Last edited by 6shootercarry; 08-10-2009 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Bad gramma

  8. #17
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    FN1910: If what you have written here is close to the truth, it sounds like Miller is in the wrong. The fact that he quickly left the scene is an indicator that he may have "felt like" what he had just done was wrong... Jury is going to have a tough time with this and will need good witnesses to state the facts...

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 6shootercarry View Post
    FN1910: If what you have written here is close to the truth, it sounds like Miller is in the wrong. The fact that he quickly left the scene is an indicator that he may have "felt like" what he had just done was wrong... Jury is going to have a tough time with this and will need good witnesses to state the facts...
    I wrote it as close as I could determine from all of the articles I read. I totally agree that a jury is going to have a tough time with this one. Some of the articles were published before Miller was arrested so they give a different view on it than after when he gave his side of the story.

  10. #19
    Whether justified or not. It can very easily have turned into a BAD situation.
    Not necessarily the parties involved, but innocent bystanders.
    And most definitely ammo for the liberal media which report as they see things not the facts.

  11. #20
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    Bad on all counts. It will be ammo for the liberals who would like noting more than to remove the 2nd amendment and all mention of the phrase "The right to keep and bear arms"... Like I wrote it's a case of two wrongs... Bad for the wife and kids who will come home from a vacation and not have a father or husband. Bad for a person who had been beaten close to death before and who will live with that nightmare playing in his head forever. Now it's going to be two nightmares playing in his head forever and lots of time to see both shows. That's never going to go away. I don't know the details, but if what the media reports had written regarding Miller being the instigator then this could be his wake-up call… Who knows that may have been the catalyst for the beating that he received some years ago maybe a history repeating kinda thing... I feel for the kids. That’s going to be a hard story to tell for the rest of your life…

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