Another Case Of C & C Gone Wrong? - Page 3
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Thread: Another Case Of C & C Gone Wrong?

  1. By the way, thanks for contributing. I was actually Suspended for posting this same thread on another site. Was told I was "inciting arguments"....

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  3. #22
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    Inciting arguments? Naaahhh.. More like soliciting opinions. Getting differing opinions from mature and reasonable folks is how meaningful and thought provoking conversations begin. Relationships are built from there.. Social networking.. It’s all good..
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  4. #23
    Hmmmm.

    I have to say that just because I carry doesn't mean I cannot honk my horn or yell at someone else to move.

    That said, the situation should warrant the honk and my yell should be without obscenities or personal comments.

    Under those conditions, I see nothing wrong with shooting when you are being attacked and either your tactical position, lack of skill or other disparity of force exists in such a way that you are in fear for your life or others.

    Like the VA IHOP shooting a few years ago and the Memphis parking space shooting earlier this year, there once again seems to be a rush to judgment when we can already see a changing of the stories and the investigation is still underway.

    I must have missed what Miller was on probation for, was it in one of the linked articles?
    Reality, DEAL with IT!

  5. #24
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    Some of you hit on one important point. Mr. Miller COULD HAVE DRIVEN AWAY. I am not sure if Mr. Miller was in his car or out of his car. Certainly if he got out of his car he is in really big trouble--now you have the "show me what you got suckah" offensive show, which is wholly indefensible if you are a CC. If I am on a jury and driving away was an option, Mr. Miller is sure as heck guilty of something and its more than just bad judgement. If Mr. Miller had been up against a wall and continually had yelled (in earshot of witnesses) "I've got no beef with you--lets forget the whole thing--I'm sorry" and then got pummeled, and then waited for the police, his shooting would be justified, backed by witnesses and his actions, and odds are the prosecutor would not have even thought about bringing charges; just because he initiated things with some honking and yelling Mr. Vigeant should have said to himself that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never harm me", instead of allowing his machismo take hold.

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ecocks View Post
    Hmmmm.

    I have to say that just because I carry doesn't mean I cannot honk my horn or yell at someone else to move.

    That said, the situation should warrant the honk and my yell should be without obscenities or personal comments.

    Under those conditions, I see nothing wrong with shooting when you are being attacked and either your tactical position, lack of skill or other disparity of force exists in such a way that you are in fear for your life or others.

    Like the VA IHOP shooting a few years ago and the Memphis parking space shooting earlier this year, there once again seems to be a rush to judgment when we can already see a changing of the stories and the investigation is still underway.

    I must have missed what Miller was on probation for, was it in one of the linked articles?
    He was not on probation but rather out on $1,000 bond for a harassment case. It was in some of the stories and I don't know any other details. Normally when you are out on bond you can't carry a gun but that is up to the judge so I have no idea whether Miller was restricted or not.

    I found it

    http://www.thesunnews.com/news/local...link=mirelated
    Matt Miller has no prior criminal history according to a State Law Enforcement Division background check but is facing a charge of second-degree harassment in connection with a Feb. 19 incident in Surfside Beach, according to the 15th Judicial Circuit. Miller was released from jail the next day after posting $1,000 bail

  7. #26
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    [QUOTE=ecocks;87133]Hmmmm.

    I have to say that just because I carry doesn't mean I cannot honk my horn or yell at someone else to move.

    That said, the situation should warrant the honk and my yell should be without obscenities or personal comments.

    [QUOTE]

    Getting mad is part of life...happens from time to time.. Having a temper is one thing.. loosing it is another.
    Again none of us has a full and complete understanding of the events and the facts related to the shooters decision to use deadly force. We have to rely on what the reporters have written. With me the fact that the shooter fled the scene after the shooting gives me pause. I get the impression that he may have had some feelings of guilt and thought what he had done may be construed as wrong.
    I hope that I never have to choose to potentially take a life, but if the time comes and the need arises I have chosen to exercise my freedom and be armed. I believe that what Thomas Jefferson said (my quote) is indeed fact and that those who choose (as they are free to do) violence and crime as a way of life, will in the end loose their life in violence.
    Last edited by 6shootercarry; 08-13-2009 at 09:52 PM. Reason: fix quote
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  8. #27
    You can call it whatever you want to and yes I am assuming, have no facts on it etc. but I do not believe Miller when he says he was being punched in the face. Before I acept his version I will have to have some additional evidence and I admit that I should not do this but I just get this feeling.

  9. #28
    Oh yeah, left off my little list that the leaving the scene was a TRULY bad idea and makes him look guilty. In fact, I would suspect he is in fact guilty of fleeing that scene and failing to report this incident. There goes his CCP right there.
    Reality, DEAL with IT!

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by marionandjohn View Post
    So if I understand this right and I obviously dont have all the facts but it seems as though yall are saying that if you are carring then you cant speak your mind and tell some they are stupid/being dumb (maybe not in so nice of words) because then you become the aggressor if they wanna fight you for some words said? Just curious, let me spin off this with a what if and keep in mind in GA your vehicle is considered your personal property under the castle doctrine. Me being 5'7" 160 and Billy Bob (6'2" because that was used) is stopped at a green light, him being in front of me and I honk my horn, he then gets out, and being a man of considerable size, coming at me to "punch me in the face" I have no right to draw my weapon? I have to disagree and feel I have the right and even if miller did call the guy an idiot and tell him to move there was nothing that waranted a punch in the face if it were only words exchanged. As for leaving the scene he shouldnt have and doesnt FL have a civil protection in the castle doctrine? Again let me know if I am in left field or not. Another question is dont FL have a stand your ground law meaning you dont "have" to retreat first? It seems to me that the only crime here is fleeing the scene and possibly having the firearm. I know in GA you dont have to have a CC to have a loaded firearm in your vehicle, is FL the same way? If so no crime there either. This seems like Vigeant tried to be a big man and got put in his place. Im sorry for the family but seems he was in the wrong and is one reason I carry. I am also sorry for Miller who has to live with knowing he took another mans life, rough on the mind but easier then another coma.
    A clip from the news article: "According to Miller's arrest warrant, the men were in the drive-through lane at the McDonald's near U.S. 17 Bypass and 38th Avenue North when Miller began arguing with Vigeant about moving his vehicle."

    I don't know anything about you or your training but one thing I learned that makes ALOT of sense is this:

    "When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.

    You just lost the right to flip off the motorist who just cut you off in traffic. You have to ignore the scumbag who just "wolf-whistled" at your wife/girlfriend. If someone wants to pick a fight with you, you lost the right to respond in any way other than a kind, friendly manner while walking away. As an armed person you must be more likely and willing to avoid trouble that an unarmed person would be. You have the legal and moral obligation of de-escalating any situation that you are presented with unless you are faced by someone displaying all three of the "attack potential" elements. Carrying a loaded firearm among your fellow citizens is an awesome responsibility that is not to be taken lightly.

    Remember, once you strap on your weapon, you must carry with it a great measure of discretion and judgment, along with an easy-going attitude."


    Direct from "5 rules for (CCW) Concealed Carry Weapon"

    5 rules for (CCW) Concealed Carry Weapon

    Read and understand these rules and I think you can answer your own question.

  11. #30
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    It seems that in many situations there are some very "iffy" and dynamic scenarios that get played out literally in seconds. As you sit in your easy chair, far from those situations, try to put yourself on a jury,think about yourself as the defendant and your CC defensive actions, be as "liberal" as you can be with ultimate gun control/violence on the top of your agenda, and examine the possibilities of you having used your CCW. If there is any doubt in your mind that your actions may have been premature, incorrect or illegal, note them and remember them. I found the previous poster, takemine2 and his reference to the 5 roles of CCW to be very good advice. Study them and remember them; god-forbid you should or could find yourself in a "situation", the actions you take in the next few seconds could be very life-changing for you legally and financially. I must say once again that this forum is about as good as it gets for a group of members who show an inordinate respect for their CC responsibilities and the very informative and respectful replies that are presented on these threads.

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