Another Case Of C & C Gone Wrong? - Page 8
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Thread: Another Case Of C & C Gone Wrong?

  1. #71
    For those of you that think, and say, that Tennessee has a Duty To Retreat law:

    39-11-611. Self-defense. —
    (a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:
    (1) “Business” means a commercial enterprise or establishment owned by a person as all or part of the person's livelihood or is under the owner's control or who is an employee or agent of the owner with responsibility for protecting persons and property and shall include the interior and exterior premises of the business;
    (2) “Curtilage” means the area surrounding a dwelling that is necessary, convenient and habitually used for family purposes and for those activities associated with the sanctity of a person's home;
    (3) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people;
    (4) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the curtilage of the residence; and
    (5) “Vehicle” means any motorized vehicle that is self-propelled and designed for use on public highways to transport people or property.

    (b) (1) Notwithstanding 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.
    (2) Notwithstanding 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if:
    (A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;
    (B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and
    (C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds.
    (c) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, business, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest, when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, business, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

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  3. #72
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    Heres a link to one of the stories. It's not the original as the original has expired.
    http://www.myrtlebeachherald.com/def...herald&he=.com
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  4. #73
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    We can argue the Myrtle Beach case forever but in the end it will come down to 12 people on a jury, which still will not settle anything except that particular case and the evidence that is presented and examined. Mr. Miller will not only have spent his savings on a lawyer but may very well end up in jail and, if he ends up in jail, will spend the rest of whatever he has on civil penalties brought by the Vigeant family. Personally if I was on the jury I would find him guilty, based on what I understand of the facts. If I was in the car and a Mr. Vigeant came over to me and punched me in the face I would pull away (if I could), note his license plate, call the police and press assault charges against Miller; I would find it difficult to believe I would shoot someone over a punch in the face. Easy for me to say sitting here in my computer room and not on the receiving end of a punch from a guy who is yelling and screaming at me.The more you think about this CCW "thing" you realize how truly difficult it is to navigate the law as written and the real world as it occurs to you in a particularly difficult and confrontational moment in time.

  5. #74
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    This thread should have been titled "Another Case in Favor of Repealing the 2nd Amendment."

    As Ron White would say, "You can't fix stupid."

  6. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    We can argue the Myrtle Beach case forever but in the end it will come down to 12 people on a jury, which still will not settle anything except that particular case and the evidence that is presented and examined. Mr. Miller will not only have spent his savings on a lawyer but may very well end up in jail and, if he ends up in jail, will spend the rest of whatever he has on civil penalties brought by the Vigeant family. Personally if I was on the jury I would find him guilty, based on what I understand of the facts. If I was in the car and a Mr. Vigeant came over to me and punched me in the face I would pull away (if I could), note his license plate, call the police and press assault charges against Miller; I would find it difficult to believe I would shoot someone over a punch in the face. Easy for me to say sitting here in my computer room and not on the receiving end of a punch from a guy who is yelling and screaming at me.The more you think about this CCW "thing" you realize how truly difficult it is to navigate the law as written and the real world as it occurs to you in a particularly difficult and confrontational moment in time.
    I would say that you are pretty much right on target with this. I can't really say how I would vote if on the jury but this brings up a great question. How would you handle the situation if you didn't have a gun? If you can get out of it without a gun then don't use it. Too many people look on their gun as a crutch and take on a totally different attitude while carrying one. A guy punches you, is that any reason to kill him? A guy keeps punching you and you feel your life ebbing away. Then is the time you don't worry about the law or anything else but your life. Those times in between are decision times and hope you make the correct decision. I really hate these questions about is it legal to use my gun in such and such a situation. If I am getting ready to kill someone the last thing I am going to worry about is the legality of it.

  7. #76
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    Hey Cocked and Locked: With all due respect to your comments, I'm not quite sure what your point was in your last post but if it is expressing your displeasure with this thread and/or its posts then do not read it and certainly do not waste your time on replying. Dozens of posters have expressed opinions but you just seem to want them to stop because you find them worthless and not up to your standards. I surely hope that your chosen user name and what seems to be very little patience in appreciating what other people have to say does not spill over to an exaggerated, aggravated and aggressive attitude if/when you choose to CC. I surely wish you the best as a person who obviously believes in the 2nd Amendment, but you should appreciate the fact that many people, including myself, support the 2nd Amendment but have a different appreciation of the responsibilities of CC and the time, place and circumstances of using a CCW. That is not stupid, that is being intelligent and ithoughtful.

  8. #77
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    Hey kelcarry, not being sure about my point means just that: you took it wrong. Episodes like this are only more fodder for the anti-gun lobby. The Stupid people that use their weapons like that are the ones that will be the undoing of the 2nd amendment - just helping the anti's along.

    I have plenty of patience. That's why I waited for you all to get more-or-less finished over-analyzing this situation for what it really is: A stupid person abusing his firearm priviledge, simple as that. The preface about his unfortunate background and all that relates to most of the rest of the story, painful jury decisions and all is one big load of rubbish.

    Just my humble opinion, FWIW.

  9. #78
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    Hey Cocked and Locked: The fun of these threads is reading what everyone has to say about something that someone brings up; even if it rehashes similar posts, there is always a little different "take" from each of the posters. I wish you well and understand your comments and lets all hope, as much as we may learn from the various "CC gone wrong" situations, that we never have to be put in a situation that requires CCW use. I lived most of my adult life (67 now) in NY/NJ and have travelled in some "funny" areas in those states. I have never been in a situation where I ever thought of the need for a CCW; I have found that common sense is a stronger weapon than any CCW and I think that is an overriding point and the essence of what most people on this forum believe and think. I am getting older and more cynical based on current national politics and this is the only time I feel real fear for where this country iis going; I cannot rely on my common sense to undo the things that the federal government is doing. Primarily, I have elected to exercise my 2nd Amendment right to protect myself and my family from what I consider to be a dangerous government and CC expands on this concern. CC in my everyday life is important to me but I still feel it is a secondary concern of mine based on the aforementioned 67 years of common sense. Wish you well Cocked and Loaded and look forward to your comments in this forum.

  10. #79
    OK, I am not going to read 8 pages of comments to see if this has been stated yet. A guy gets out of his car and walks over to yours, he cannot punch you if the window is up. Roll up your window and wait him out.
    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose. - Frederick Douglass

  11. #80
    I think marionandjohn have a point, one which I've tried to make before and had my head handed to me: When we're carrying, do we "lose" the capability to say anything at all in any situation? When we're carrying, I understand the higher standard which we must operate under but does that necessarily mean we can't address a situation as a rational human being without fear of escalation?

    Here we go: I'm waiting behind a car which doesn't move when the light turns green and so I casually hit the horn (not loud and long, just a tap) to get their attention. No offense intended, just wanted to get their attention. Now, if someone does that to me, I think "oops", wave to them, and move my car. No problem. But, Numbnuts in the car ahead of me doesn't like it, opens his door and starts walking back toward me. Being the rational and friendly person I am, I roll down my window to say, hey, no problem...but he's not buying it and off we go. I've done nothing wrong, in my opinion, but some folks are just wound too tight. Should I not have hit the horn because of this possibility? And my first reaction when Numbnuts gets out of his car is not to roll up my window and dial 911; I would attempt to explain, as I said.

    So, because of the POSSIBILITY of escalation, must we always refrain from any reasonable language or action which MIGHT be interpreted wrongly by someone else?

    PLEASE NOTE: I DID NOT SAY I WOULD SHOOT SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T MOVE THEIR CAR WHEN THE LIGHT TURNED GREEN!

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