"Mental Illness" prohibitions on CCW permits - Page 3
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Thread: "Mental Illness" prohibitions on CCW permits

  1. Some states use the term "adjudicated." This leaves far less in the hands of unaccountable people and more in the hands of the courts. It is not simply enough to be found to be mentally ill. It requires that a court declare it.

    In some of those states, you're free to own a firearm again after the court decides that you're no longer a threat to yourself or others. It seems like a reasonable compromise. There are still some issues, but it's better than letting a simple doctor deny your rights.

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Ropadope View Post
    What mental illness ??

    If I've taken an anti depressent for anxiety, is that necessarily a "mental Illness?"

    Point being, it's very subjective in my opinion. If I've been committed to a psych ward under unvoluntary conditions and diagnosed with Schizophrenia then I can see the point, but as mentioned, just taking an anti depressent for something like anxiety or enduring the loss of a loved one is not a "mental Illness" in my opinion.

    It's very subjective and yet the queston that is asked on the application leaves much to be open to discussion.
    Nope, NOTHING is open to discussion as far as your getting the CCW or not is concerned.
    The form asks if you've "EVER been diagnosed with a mental illness" (emphasis in original)-- which they define as "any mental condition which prevents dealing with the matters of everyday life."

    And if you answer "yes," then you don't get the CCW-- and if you answer "no" then they can search your private records and jail you for perjury.

    It's just a sign of the empire we live in-- and how people are only as "free" as they leash they're on; and if they see that leash is longer for themselves than others, it makes them feel superior, like a slave who gets "special privileges."

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Booga View Post
    Some states use the term "adjudicated." This leaves far less in the hands of unaccountable people and more in the hands of the courts. It is not simply enough to be found to be mentally ill. It requires that a court declare it.

    In some of those states, you're free to own a firearm again after the court decides that you're no longer a threat to yourself or others. It seems like a reasonable compromise. There are still some issues, but it's better than letting a simple doctor deny your rights.
    There's also an issue of Due Process under the 14th Amendment, i.e. that the person wasn't given "Fair Warning" that they would be deprived of this privilege when subjecting themselves to such a diagnosis.

    However someone like me, who receives Social Security Income for disability from PTSD, can't really escape such a diagnosis, and still get medication-prescription for it.

    Perhaps I should have just said I felt fine, but that I was just "always extremely tired for no reason," and the reason would have been attributed to Chronic Fatigue-- a "physical" problem; then I could get the medication some other way.

    Most people are just like "McMurphy" from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Next," i.e. they think that when they have an encounter with the Mental Health field, that it's all about caring and compassion etc. and so they seek it out too readily and too trustingly.

    Then too late, they find out the REALITY that there's NO getting out of it-- NO way to escape the stigma; and that authories can get away with doing anything to you on the grounds that you're "crazy," and so society will condone it. People will treat you like an outcast or inferior, and assume that you're delusional and irrational, a complete "lunatic."

    In short, liberal politically-correct society REFUSES to acknowledge the medieval attitudes and hysterical perceptions that society attaches to "mental illness," and the stereotypical bigotry and prejudice that society attaches to it.
    If you're an alcoholic-- well, that's "DIFFERENT, EVERYONE" drinks.

    But if you have PTSD because you were attacked by criminals, or in a war, or abused as a child-- well then "we can't take any chances with your crazy little self, by letting you loonies play with guns or sharp objects!" It doesn't matter if there's no evidence that you're a danger to yourself or others-- the simple term "mental illness" throws all your rights out the nearest window-- just like they used to do with mandatory shock-treatments and frontal lobotomy.
    Again, NO ONE WILL CARE-- in fact they'll APPROVE of "society disarming crazies."

    This is why we see that there's NOTHING more dangerous than a fool with power-- or admitting that you have "mental illness" of ANY kind. Even if your whole family was crushed by a steam-roller right in front of you.

    In fact, we don't even hear that mental patients were the FIRST victims of the Holocaust, because they're not considered "legitimate victims;" 28 mental patients were subjected by German doctors to something called "Carbon Monoxide Therapy--" i.e. forced to breathe nothing but carbon monoxide;" after this, they were "cured" by no longer being mental patients.
    From this, they decided to try it on Jews.

    The moral:
    Do NOT EVER admit that you have a "mental illness," or even subject yourself to such a diagnosis, by saying that you have symptoms of ANY problems with mood, anxiety, etc.

    Just say that you are just "extremely tired for no reason," and that if you have any anxiety, it's simply over "HOW YOU'LL PAY YOUR BILLS WHEN YOU'RE TOO TIRED TO WORK."
    Other than that, YOU FEEL FINE.

    Then, you'll get a diagnosis of "unexplained Chronic Fatigue."

    If you DO subject yourself to a true diagnosis, use a FAKE NAME, and PAY CASH. Then you can get a prescription and treatment plan-- PAY CASH for that too, or at least set up a fake checking-account for it.

    ALWAYS PROTECT YOUR REPUTATION-- WITH YOUR LIFE; it could MEAN your life.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booga View Post
    Some states use the term "adjudicated." This leaves far less in the hands of unaccountable people and more in the hands of the courts. It is not simply enough to be found to be mentally ill. It requires that a court declare it.

    In some of those states, you're free to own a firearm again after the court decides that you're no longer a threat to yourself or others. It seems like a reasonable compromise. There are still some issues, but it's better than letting a simple doctor deny your rights.
    Exactly correct. And a recent federal law does the same thing. That forced the VA to remove many vets from their "mental-illness-so-no-guns-for-you" list that included many vets who had sought counselling for stress and anxiety and post-traumatic-stress. They had been placed on the lists during the Clinton Administration, and through this law were removed.

    That same law made it a requirement for states to report to the federal gov't those that have been adjuducated as mentally ill. This followed on the heels of the VA Tech shooting in which the VCA (violent criminal actor) HAD been adjudicated mentally ill in a state court, but the court hadn't reported it to the feds so he didn't pop as a prohibitied person on the NICS check and thus was allowed to buy the guns he used.

    Just seeking help for a problem doesn't make you mentally ill in the eyes of the law. But when a judge bangs the gavel and says, "You're nuts," that does.
    Dan Hammond, Sr.
    Christian and No Foolin' Infidel
    NRA Marksmanship Instructor and Training Counselor, RSO, KS CCH Instructor

  6. Ill meet ya'll at the North Church at Lexington and Concord.
    Retired US Army Medic
    Proud Husband, Dad and Christian
    www.nationofshooters.com

  7. #26
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    In order to be denied your 2A rights by federal law you must be adjudicated or have been committed to a mental institution. If you voluntarily enter a mental institution it does not effect your rights. If a VA employee says you lose your rights if you are diagnosed with PTSD they are wrong! Period!
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Red Hat View Post
    In order to be denied your 2A rights by federal law you must be adjudicated or have been committed to a mental institution. If you voluntarily enter a mental institution it does not effect your rights. If a VA employee says you lose your rights if you are diagnosed with PTSD they are wrong! Period!
    They're not denying your 2A rights, they're denying your CCW PRIVILEGES.

    As for the VA, they might make it a stipulation on receiving benefits-- i.e. you have to choose between your gun and your income.

  9. #28
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    Post

    In WA State, It says you can not carry a weapon if you have been commited to a mental hospital or government recognized in-patient mental hospital. You can not carry in these establishments either. But with a CCW you can carry in a regular mental health facility, such as a check in, check out for normal mental health care issues, that does not have an inpatient attachment. So, as long as you have not been commited you are ok to carry in WA. I would speak with a lawyer to see if any of your state laws prohibit you from carrying legaly. If not, I would check no. My gun stores have stated the same thing to me, when I first purchased my own firearm. I also noticed this question.
    Respect your efforts, respect yourself. Self-respect leads to self-discipline. When you have both firmly under your belt, that's real power.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradAnderson View Post
    They're not denying your 2A rights, they're denying your CCW PRIVILEGES.

    As for the VA, they might make it a stipulation on receiving benefits-- i.e. you have to choose between your gun and your income.
    The VA can't deny you your CWP! They don't have the authority. I know several people here that have PTSD and they have their CWP. Read this thread. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/milit...-va-visit.html
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  11. #30
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    *Been Committed*

    Quote Originally Posted by P220 View Post
    In WA State, It says you can not carry a weapon if you have been commited to a mental hospital or government recognized in-patient mental hospital. You can not carry in these establishments either. But with a CCW you can carry in a regular mental health facility, such as a check in, check out for normal mental health care issues, that does not have an inpatient attachment. So, as long as you have not been commited you are ok to carry in WA. I would speak with a lawyer to see if any of your state laws prohibit you from carrying legaly. If not, I would check no. My gun stores have stated the same thing to me, when I first purchased my own firearm. I also noticed this question.
    The operative phrase in this an most others is, "Been Committed." This means someone else got you committed to a mental institution. Voluntarily seeking treatment is not normally a disqualifier.

    This is where the adjudicated piece comes into play. If a judge sent you there, you're disqualified, and probably a prohibited person as well.

    And most state mental institutions are off-limit for carrying. It's not so much that they're worried about you, as they are the patients. I have a cousin that was in an institution for a while. He was in a bad car accident as a youth and suffered significant brain damage. He is usually well-behaved, but has occasional bouts of anger, and he's strong as an ox! I would never carry around him.
    Dan Hammond, Sr.
    Christian and No Foolin' Infidel
    NRA Marksmanship Instructor and Training Counselor, RSO, KS CCH Instructor

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