Let's make Concealed Carry a RIGHT
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Thread: Let's make Concealed Carry a RIGHT

  1. Let's make Concealed Carry a RIGHT

    I would like to propose that everyone in states that allow open carry, band together to challenge Concealed Carry laws in court.

    For example, Michigan CCW-law is unconstitutional by requiring a permit to carry concealed, despite recognizing the right to carry openly. This also goes for many other states which allow Open Carry.

    This is a violation of federal privacy-rights, which are defined as the right to be free from public scrutiny, in activities that are in accord with law and public policy.

    Since carrying is a right under the Michigan Constitution, then the open-carry requirement is a violation of federal privacy-rights.

    By filing a federal suit against the Michigan CC law, we can secure our federal privacy-rights by carrying concealed as a matter of right, not as a matter of privilege.

    This means that all Michigan citizens will be able to carry concealed WITHOUT a permit-- just like they are able to carry openly now.

    Again, we have the LEGAL RIGHT to carry concealed, but this is being violated by the Michigan legislature. It's our right and duty to take action to take it back.

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  3. #2
    Mr. Anderson,

    I lived in Michigan for years, left for the service of our country, now vowing to never return as a citizen. You live in one the most liberally run states in the Union. Well, O.K. not including Washington, DC, which really isn't a state, and California. You have my sincerest apologizes.

    The one bright spot in all of this garbage that our President is undertaking is that they have so over reached. The tide is turning we may get our wish, sooner than either one of us might think.


    Scott Williams
    Black Dragon Personal Protection/Firearms Training/Unarmed Combat

  4. You HAVE been gone a long time. In 2002, Michigan became a "must issue" state, wherein CCW permits are issued to anyone who applies, unless they have a criminal record-- or have been "diagnosed with a mental illness" (regardless of whether they present a threat to themselves or others).

    Likewise, anyone can open-carry, without a permit. Therefore the open-cary law requiring a CCW permit to carry concealed, is therefore a violation of federal privacy laws for reasons I've mentioned.

    The Michigan Constitution clearly states that "Every person has the right to bear arms for defense of self or the state;" likewise, federal privacy-law prohibit any law tha exposes a person to public scrutiny in otherwise-lawful activity.

    Since bearing arms is a RIGHT in Michigan, then the open-carry law violates federal privacy-laws, since it exposes a person to public scrutiny in bearing arms.

  5. We are doing it here in California. Click there for 78 pages. September 24 is the date for both the 9th circuit Nordyke hearing and the Sykes MSJ hearing.

  6. #5
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    Concealed and open carry already are our right, as part of the right to keep and bear arms, protected by the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and extended vis-a-vis the states via the Fourteenth Amendment. The problem is that the federal and states' governments routinely violate that right, and we citizens have for far too long allowed them to do so, to the point that it is now widely accepted among average Americans that we do not have such a right that cannot be constitutionally infringed on by the several governments.

    It is a re-education that is required, from the smallest child to POTUS, everyone needs to be educated about what was commonly known and understood at the founding of the country and for many years thereafter, but which since has been largely forgotten and misconstrued.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by XD-Fender View Post
    Concealed and open carry already are our right, as part of the right to keep and bear arms, protected by the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and extended vis-a-vis the states via the Fourteenth Amendment. The problem is that the federal and states' governments routinely violate that right, and we citizens have for far too long allowed them to do so, to the point that it is now widely accepted among average Americans that we do not have such a right that cannot be constitutionally infringed on by the several governments.

    It is a re-education that is required, from the smallest child to POTUS, everyone needs to be educated about what was commonly known and understood at the founding of the country and for many years thereafter, but which since has been largely forgotten and misconstrued.
    There's nothing we can do about the US Supreme Court once it has ruled; and it has ruled that states have the power to regulate firearms any way they please.

    However state cannot grant gun-carrying as a right, but still impose restrictions on it that violate federal privacy-laws.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by BradAnderson View Post
    There's nothing we can do about the US Supreme Court once it has ruled; and it has ruled that states have the power to regulate firearms any way they please.

    However they cannot grant it as a right, but still impose restrictions on it that violate federal privacy-laws.
    What case said that? My understanding is that the Heller case actually said the exact opposite.

    If you look up Nordyke, the 9th circuit incorporated the 2nd as a federal right. It is now going to be heard en banc on Sept 24 in San Fransicso. If and when the SCOTUS hears it (either on appeal or due to dissenting opinions between the 9th and 7th circuit) they will be forced to rule on incorporation and how it applies at the state level. This could be done in the fall session.

    There are some amazing things happening right now, many within the VERY liberal 9th circuit. I'll find some of the wikipedia pages and post links here shortly.

  9. #8
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    Arrow Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by XD-Fender View Post
    Concealed and open carry already are our right, as part of the right to keep and bear arms, protected by the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and extended vis-a-vis the states via the Fourteenth Amendment. The problem is that the federal and states' governments routinely violate that right, and we citizens have for far too long allowed them to do so, to the point that it is now widely accepted among average Americans that we do not have such a right that cannot be constitutionally infringed on by the several governments.

    It is a re-education that is required, from the smallest child to POTUS, everyone needs to be educated about what was commonly known and understood at the founding of the country and for many years thereafter, but which since has been largely forgotten and misconstrued.
    +1. Concise and clear and spot-on.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradAnderson View Post
    There's nothing we can do about the US Supreme Court once it has ruled; and it has ruled that states have the power to regulate firearms any way they please.

    However they cannot grant it as a right, but still impose restrictions on it that violate federal privacy-laws.
    The rationale of the line of Supreme Court cases that address the issue of whether the 14th Amendment extended the 2nd Amendment vis-a-vis the states (the Cruikshank line of cases) has been thoroughly rejected by dozens of subsequent cases on the import of the 14th Amendment and SCOTUS has not reviewed the specific issue of the 2A/14A in over a century. When Nordyke or another case in which the 14A issue is specificially at issue goes to SCOTUS, SCOTUS will overturn the Cruikshank line--it's virtually certain, in light of modern-day 14A jurisprudence. Indeed, SCOTUS effectively indicated as much in its now famous footnote in Heller.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by XD-Fender View Post
    The rationale of the line of Supreme Court cases that address the issue of whether the 14th Amendment extended the 2nd Amendment vis-a-vis the states
    Where did you get this idea that I was talking about the 2nd Amendment? I didn't say that, YOU said that.

    I was talking about the federal right of PRIVACY. To wit:

    This is a violation of federal privacy-rights, which are defined as the right to be free from public scrutiny, in activities that are in accord with law and public policy.
    OC/CC laws prohibit carrying a gun concealed, but ALLOW carrying openly without a permit.
    If carrying a gun is legal, then state laws require carrying openly are in violation of these rights.

    You're clearly on a crusade, hijacking other threads. Stop it.

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