How Long Before You CC With a Bullet In the Chamber? - Page 12
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Thread: How Long Before You CC With a Bullet In the Chamber?

  1. Carried my Government model 1911 with one in the chamber, cocked and locked from the git go.
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum. . .Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis. . . .Nemo me impune lacessit . . .Veritas vos Liberabit. . . .ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! . . . .Write, speak, do!

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  3. #112
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    South Carolina/Charleston
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    Think I'll put my CCW away and just walk with hardballer. When someone uses language like "git go", he means business and knows what he is doing. Happy New Year hardballer.

  4. #113
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    St. Louis County, MO
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    I can't say for sure how long it will take, as I am still in training wheels ...
    "Don't let the door hit ya where the dawg shudda bit ya!"
    G'day and Glock
    GATEWAY SWIFT WING ST. LOUIS

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat61 View Post
    Lots of mixed opinions here but I have to agree with the "when you feel comfortable" way of thinking. I personally haven't received my ccw yet, taking the class next month, but while on my own property, I carry for practice, with a round in the chamber. My level of comfort on this comes from the particular gun I have, which is double action, every shot. I feel very safe with this, knowing that the firing pin has to be pulled back and released every shot, not sitting in a potential firing position, to be released by the trigger. In an urgent situation, not having a round already in the chamber will definitely be a disadvantage but so is your personal uneasiness about the status of your weapon. I would advise you to keep "playing" with your gun, get as familiar with it as you can until you feel that it is an extension of your body. Know it like any other tool or object that you use daily. Be confident with it and what it is capable of. Wear it chambered around your house, when you're alone at first if you need to. Only then will you feel comfortable knowing you have a fully loaded weapon on your person. Hope this helps.
    The other half of the DAO equation in making things a bit safer, of course, is the fact that DAO's are generally a stronger trigger pull to go bang. Combine this with a decocker or a safety of some sort and now you are talking!

  6. [quote=oldvet53;104604]
    Quote Originally Posted by torontogunguy View Post
    i cc condition 1, i also have a m-4 at home but it has a mag loaded with D.R.T. frangable rounds, empty chamber, the frangable wont go through walls and penatrate with a small hole about 2in. and disperce 100% energy ina wound channel the size of a soccer ball. the military has used these rounds in iraq and afganistan about 8yrs.now.
    Frangible rounds, if I am not mistaken, are prohibited in armed conflict - we are restricted to hardball if I am not mistaken for handguns anyway. (Of course one raises the question of armour piercing, etc.... but I was under the impression that hardball was the only legal round for doing business). Comments?

    Frangible, of course, makes sense in many situations, but I personally would not use a frangible round for self defense. Just too much energy loss when the thing crumbles from what I am reading. I'll stick with Gold Dots or some of the newer stuff in something I can place accurately.

    As one of the trainers from the SAS said... if you can place a ten shot magazine in a pie plate at 25 feet as fast as you can pull the trigger you have a round that is going to do you well in self defense, starting at 9mm.

    Having said that, I have no problem with 9mm. engineered SD rounds, but given my choice will go with something a bit heftier, .40, .357Sig, .45ACP in +P or +P+ if the gun will handle the pressure and if I can handle ten rounds in the pie plate as fast as I can let them off.

    One needs to remember that there is a very fine line between letting of ten rounds rapidly and doing a very well placed double or triple tap slowly enough to place the rounds where they need to be. Shot placement is far more critical than quantity as many of the incident reports will show, where both sides fired a full magazine at one another with zero hits at ten feet. Sound crazy? Sounded crazy to me too. But it is, believe it or not, true.

    It takes tremendous training, practice and willpower to slow things down just enough to place your shots properly as opposed to 'spraying'. And to me a frangible round is akin to firing a shotgun shell made for trap shooting where you are going to find less than desirable penetration and certainly not the penetration that FBI testing and reports tell us is essential in CQB.

    And then on top of all of that we have to consider what time of year it is, what the weather is going to be (is the bad guy going to be wearing a heavy leather coat) and so on. I would love to be able to carry a hefty .45ACP +P or +P+ all the time but I know that is just not practical.

    Not as simple as it seems I am afraid and much research, training and practice is advisable BEFORE finding oneself in a 'situation' (and I can assure you that it is a whole lot different shooting at IPSC/IDPA targets than it is when someone is shooting back at you, even in the dark). Keep in mind that your first shot is going to reveal you... your training should be teaching you to practice shooting at that target while you are moving (unfortunately, most ranges do not permit this type of practice unless you are a LEO or at a specialized range.)

  7. #116
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    desha, arkansas
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    the d.r.t. rounds Have been used in iraq and afganistan for 6-8yrs. in combat. the troops refer to them as dead right there! if the military is useing them in c.q.b thats good enough for me, and i like the wound channel the size of a soccer ball. better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
    Last edited by oldvet53; 01-02-2010 at 10:10 AM. Reason: spelling

  8. #117
    Depending on the situation, I carry a XD45 Compact or a PPS40. I now carry with a round chambered at all times. It took me a little while to get used to it.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Think I'll put my CCW away and just walk with hardballer. When someone uses language like "git go", he means business and knows what he is doing. Happy New Year hardballer.
    Thanks Kel, Have a fine year yourself.
    Igitur qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum. . .Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis. . . .Nemo me impune lacessit . . .Veritas vos Liberabit. . . .ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! . . . .Write, speak, do!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by hardballer View Post
    Carried my Government model 1911 with one in the chamber, cocked and locked from the git go.
    Funny thing is that there are even arguments about this method of carry, which I personally think is safer than carrying a Glock as 1911's today are generally built to such standards that chances of an AD/ND do not depend on simply not getting something stuck in that trigger guard....

    However, having said that, read Ayoob and some of the others on carrying Condition 1 and you will get the impression, variously, that it is either the BESTEST way to go or it is the WORSTEST way to go and eveything in between.

    I would agree that comfort has much to do with what is going to be safest for an individual as that individual becomes more trained and experienced.

    In the beginning you could not get me to carry a Glock concealed under ANY circumstances with one in the tube but after reading, practicing, and playing.... I am not quite comfy carrying my mini Glocks concealed deeply with one in the tube (cocked of course) in a GOOD quality holster. No troubles with this any longer. But that is not to say that I don't feel there are other handguns out there that are absolutely safer - the HK P7M8, Sig P239's and so on.... each for their own reasons. The P7M8 is a squeeze cocker and to me is extremely safe, even without a holster. The P239's are great - first shot at 8 pounds or so and then subsequent shots at about 3# or so.... and you decock back to 8# before holstering, etc.

    Agreed, comfort is important, but comfort with education and experience.

    I carried an unloaded but cocked Glock around for a while before giving it some further thought. It was still cokced and "unfired" much to my amazement - but reading, training, etc. and I realized that I was going to be happier with the 8# NY1 trigger pulls on them and so they were. And everyone lived happily ever after.

    In closing, yet again, I would say this: Remember that it is better to have a pistola and NOT EVER need it than to find yourself in need and NOT have one. THIS I speaketh from personal experience and I made whatever changes the law would permit me (living on two sides of the border) to protect myself and my loved ones. Asides from having that HUUUUUUGE revolver stuck in my nose (literally) in Orlando FL we managed to have not one but TWO attempted home invasions at home in an upper middle class neighborhood north of Toronto, Ontario. The latest, 1.5 years ago, two guys with guns and pry bars tried for ten minutes to gain access through our front doors, with the dog barking, the alarm wailing, police cars with lights going coming down the road, etc. Higher than kites methings.... the doors are half glass and we have patio doors at the rear. Go figure.

    So MY moral of the story is simply this. Whatever you do out there? BE SAFE.

    P.S. I'm also the guy with personal experience of the aftereffects of a fraction of a second of absent=mindedness. It is MY cousing who pretty much took his hand off with one round from a revolver that was thought to be empty or something (the true story has never been revealed). I believe it may have been a draw and point drill gone bad or something more mundane like that.... one will never know. What I do know is that he will never have the use of that hand again. Ever. And I have nightmares about the same ND happending when I am appendix carrying and something gets into the trigger guard on a Glock. Now, if they would only put at least a GRIP safety on my Glocks and Sigs I would be the happiest guy in the world. The odds of two seperate and distinct acts of negligence happening simultaneously to give us an unexpected BANG are an order of magnitude less likely to happen.

    Remember, whatever you do. Have the gun with you if legal. And be safe.

    God bless everyone and wishing everyone a Happy and HEALTHY New Year from one who had H1N1 in May and was on life support for most of the month of June last year. All the more reason to have an 'equalizer' with you at all times where legal... I could not fight off a canary by hand even now. I am told it will be at least another year before I am back to where I was before H1N1 and the following pneumonia battle. Friends, keep washing or disinfecting your hands, stay away from folks that are coughing, stop shaking hands and keep your hands away from your face. In for God's sake... if you can get shots... GET THEM! I am supposedly immune now but still got the H1N1 shot, reg flu shot and a pneumonia shot. The worst part of the ordeal was knowing I had left my family unprotected - and watching them wheel all the body bags out of Critical Care after midnight.

    Be safe is not just for firearms and self defense with them.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by oldvet53 View Post
    the d.r.t. rounds Have been used in iraq and afganistan for 6-8yrs. in combat. the troops refer to them as dead right there! if the military is useing them in c.q.b thats good enough for me, and i like the wound channel the size of a soccer ball. better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
    Okay. I am stumped. Always thought hardball was the standard NATO round by convention.

    PLEEEEZ explain to me the D.R.T. round. And why it is not a standard L.E. round over here? I have studied accounts of perps with 15 rounds center mass who continued to function long enough to kill L.E.O.'s. In fact, I read just this month about a perp that was shot THRU THE HEART that managed to turn and walk half a block before collapsing (They surmise it was the drugs in his system that kept him going). It was a single shot BTW; the shooter, although 'no billed' by the Grand Jury eventually, was indeed arrested and charged with Murder, and even after being 'no billed' had a heck of a time getting her handgun back such that her sister gifted her a replacement. In the end, if I have my stories straight, cuz I love to read these and find them educational... they realized that the blood spatter was on the INSIDE of the doorway and not the outside. Bingo, castle doctrine, self defense shooting, $25,000 later you are free to go.

    Anyway, back to the point of this post. Will someone please educate me as what a D.R.T. (dead right there) round might be as I have never seen one and would love to be able to carry same. I could cut a fortune in range time spent on triple tapping two in the CV triangle and one in the 'dead stop' triange taking out the cerebral cortex. Every wee bit of my training points to the ONLY dead stop shot as being a cerebral cortex shot, but if I can improve odds with better ammo I'm good to go with that too.

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