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Thread: Insult my wife

  1. #141
    I'm kinda late to this dance but, I would make some rude gesture and comment back to the idiot and be on my way. IMO, it's a no win situation, unless he touches her or myself then he's in for the big surprise.
    When seconds count, the LEO's are only minutes away...

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive1 View Post
    Why can't you just say, "look buddy, if I wasn't packing I'd kick your ass right now, but I am packing so I'm just gonna walk away". If someone said that to me in a calm collect way I'd probably wait till he turned around and rethink the next time I mock someone.....if I wasn't armed. I'm always armed, so I keep my comments to myself unless its all in fun.
    Under common law, the threat itself of grievous bodily harm may be a felony in some states. Further, if the other party now is in fear of their life you may find yourself resembling swiss cheese if THEY are carrying and now THEY are the justified party as you have utterred a threat - in some states virtually the same as assault.

    The fact that you are packing is NOBODY's business but yours and your loved ones and it is not for broadcast at any time, ever. The last thing you want is to get beaned and have your own gun stolen or worse yet, used to murder you, which is NOT an uncommon happening. If you simply walk away chances are that the situation is permanently defused. If you utter illegal threats you have placed yourself in harms way in several ways, not the least of which is having your assailant wait in some dark parking lot one night and beaning you, taking your gun and using it against YOU.

    Nope, I would say not a word; take my wife by the hand and turn and walk away. Now, if the perp is blocking your path of escape you have an entirely different situation don't you? That's why you always carry a cellfone and have 911 plumbed into the rapid dial 9 button.

  4. #143
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    A lot of people make the point that getting involved in a confrontation while carrying is somehow different from a confrontation without a weapon. I disagree. Any fight or disagreement can have dire consequences; it doesn't matter whether one or more parties have weapons. For example: two drunk guys push each other in a bar, one slips, falls, breaks his skull on a bar stool footrest. The other guy will be hard-pressed to avoid prison.

    Because any confrontation can potentially escalate to end with a killing, the best plan is to dodge such situations when possible. Only if someone is threatening to kill me (such as by physically attacking or by pointing a gun or knife) will I defend myself. At that point, it's kill or be killed.

  5. #144
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    I may have read alll these recent posts wrong but the concensus seems to be you walk away and do nothing as long as the slimeball does not go further than a verbal insult (don't any of you remember "sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never harm me"?). While you are "involved" in this situation, particularly if it is within earshot of others (otherwise known as potential witnesses), you loudly and clearly state that you want no part of this insulting situation and intend to leave--if the slimeball escalates it further, at least in SC, there is a point where you do not have to retreat any further or cannot retreat any further---at that time, with witnesses listening and/or hearing you try to avoid the situation, you have every right to "disable" the slimeball with a capital "D".

  6. #145
    In answer to: This is strongly debatable. If you have any sources, please cite them. Take for example your common 1911 pistol. It was designed to be carried "cocked and locked", however I know of many folks who carry it with the hammer down. In this condition, one would be forced to "cock" the pistol before it will fire. Another example are the folks who carry a semi-auto (like a Glock) with an empty chamber. The slide will need to be articulated, or the gun won't fire. There are many "what ifs" to this argument. Bottom line is that if you do fire in SD, it's highly likely you will end up getting arrested (or at minimum detained by law enforcement) while they sort things out and the prosecuting attorney decides if you will be charged with a crime.

    It's not debatable in Texas - I was taught it in my CCW class. You will notice I said SA/DA autos like the Beretta 92FS. This obviously does not apply to SA autos such as the 1911.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Glock Fan View Post
    This is strongly debatable. If you have any sources, please cite them. Take for example your common 1911 pistol. It was designed to be carried "cocked and locked", however I know of many folks who carry it with the hammer down. In this condition, one would be forced to "cock" the pistol before it will fire. Another example are the folks who carry a semi-auto (like a Glock) with an empty chamber. The slide will need to be articulated, or the gun won't fire. There are many "what ifs" to this argument. Bottom line is that if you do fire in SD, it's highly likely you will end up getting arrested (or at minimum detained by law enforcement) while they sort things out and the prosecuting attorney decides if you will be charged with a crime.

    I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, DO NOT CONSTRUE MY OPINIONS AS LEGAL ADVICE.


    gf
    The 1911 is indeed meant to be carried cocked and locked and that is how most police forces train their newbies who are using 1911's to carry them; with one in the chamber. Going one step further, we find that the number one choice of modern LE agencies seems to be Glock and Sig due to their reliability with 1911's seemingly falling down the chain of popularity as in court "single action" sidearms seem to have fallen into disfavor for some reason (poor defence and avid prosecution).

    To me, anyway, it seems that striker fired pistols are the best semi's and only a spit shorter than wheel guns in terms of reliability at distance. Why at distance? A wheel gun can be made non-functional by simply grabbing the cylinder and stopping it from turning - done in a blink. On the other hand a striker fired or other semi needs generally to be 'pushed' out of battery to be made inoperative. Be it only 1/8 - 1/4", nontheless the slide needs to be moved opposing the frame to do so.

    What this has to do with our discussion I have no idea whatsoever but I thought I should throw it in for good measure since the conversation seems to be vectoring off in 90 directions anyway.

    I think the original question was really to do with "WHEN TO TAKE ACTION WITH LETHAL FORCE AT HAND" and that is a tough question to answer for some; with all due respect.

    Truthfully though, it is an easy question to answer. Dead easy. You avoid conflict where you are able to regardless of how bruised your feelings may be. "Walk tall and carry a big stick". When you took it upon yourself to carry concealed lethal force you also took upon yourself some very serious responsibility and you took upon yourself along with that lethal force the need to know when to use it and when to walk away.

    Do I like my wife or friends or family being insulted? No, of course not. Am I going to brandish or use lethal force to make my point? Not a chance.

    Like I said in an earlier post (look it up) there are a couple of great books on the market right now that discuss at length lethal force encounters, the events leading up to them, the encounters themselves and the aftermaths. All I can tell you (my trainers were all right) there is not a reason in the world aside from fear of imminent IMMINENT grievous bodily harm or death to one's self or a loved one to take ANY action whatsoever. The books cover one case that I read the other night where a good samaritan took it upon himself to take out a fellow he thought was threatening death to a passerby. Fact? Nothing of the sort was happening and not only did the good samaritan brandish his firearm, but when the angry husband turned in the good samaritan's direction the good samaritan lost fine motor control - end result? The supposed bad guy saw the gun being brandished, turned to run away and wound up with two in his back and was killed. The good samaritan is now serving a looooooong term in federal prison for his good natured venture. And his family is bankrupt from the attempt to prevent this from happening.

    My personal policy is quite simple. If I am threatened with death or grievous bodily harm I draw and shoot to stop the threat. NOT TO KILL. TO STOP THE THREAT. I do not fire warning shots. I do not handload. I do not carry cocked and locked. I use double action handguns only and my Glocks have NY1 triggers on them so I don't twitch and take out a good guy by mistake. I know the ballistics of my firearms and arm myself accordingly. And I do NOT play verbal games.

    I note the story of a young university athletic scholar who went to the ATM to withdraw some money and was verbally accosted by a drunk on the street. Verbally. He and some of his friends, a couple of whom were concealed permit holders, then went back out to find the drunk and make sure he was not accosting anyone else. Long story short.... the young athlete got clocked over the head with a rock and was killed for his efforts. And nobody was being accosed. The drunk when faced with a 'mob' looking for him felt his life was in danger and took the action he thought most appropriate (which should have been to get lost but was not) and a young good samaritan lost his life. The drunk was free to go having taken the action in what he felt was self defence. Lethal force, understand, does not mean that you are faced with a gun or a knife. It can mean that you are faced with a mob of vigilantes.

    We really need to get trained and understand our rights and obligations having taken upon ourselves the opportunity to avail ourselves of lethal force, whatever that lethal force might be at the moment in question.

    Calling one's wife or girlfriend a lady of the evening certainly does not qualify.

    Gentlemen, to me this is very serious business and there is nothing tongue in cheek about the topic. It is a topic that every concealed weapon permit holder needs to be intimately familiar with and well practiced on.

    Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth.

  8. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by torontogunguy View Post

    Gentlemen, to me this is very serious business and there is nothing tongue in cheek about the topic. It is a topic that every concealed weapon permit holder needs to be intimately familiar with and well practiced on.

    Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth.
    I'll keep this quick and short... Well articulated and thoughtful commentary is not considered "taking up bandwidth"; it’s the design of the thread. Great input…

    Discussion on a subject in a manner that does not insult those involved and completely conveys your point and the points of others in a manner that validates all opinions is immeasurable in value and is not to be dismissed as silly or ridiculous.

    The "What ifs" here are just that... Then perhaps, they happen for real and the course of action that a reader of this thread chooses will be the right one...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  9. Thank you for your kind comments; when I stand up to speak it is usually after having given the topic much thought and research. I again recommend to your perusal the two books I recently picked up at Borders (30% off with members coupons) on concealed carry. They both have outstanding stories, well researched, into before, during and after lethal force encounters and some of them are WHOPPERS! I have taken it upon myself to ensure that I have a cellphone on my person at all times now as it would seem that many police departments will take the first caller down as being the complainant and the complainant is usually taken as being THE VICTIM and you can figure it out from there.

    BTW, I find 1911's - and I own some of the best avaialable - too unreliable for my tastes and therefore go for a good quality double action striker fired semi, like a Glock, Sig, etc. My G30 is my fav. Ported/Compensated barrel makes it a week bit longer than normal but does nothing to hamper it being concealed. It is the butt that you need to get small and thin and so I am looking at the G30SF just for giggles. I wear my G30 with the small 9 round mag and carry ten rounders for reloads as, after all, once exposed you really don't care how big the magazine is, do you?

    Capacity is an important issue but so is concealability.

    All of this, of course, is moot, if you wind up spending your life savings and losing your home in defending silliness in a self defence situation. And after research, again, I caution everyone that one cannot take a self defence determination at the attending LEO level for granted. Many will simply turn their reports in and leave it to the DA or staff to determine if charges get laid. So, again, my caution - presenting or brandishing a firearm in ANY situation raises the stakes exponentially. DON'T DO IT unless you truly have fear for your well being or the well being of those around you IN A SITUATION THAT YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH (don't be guessing if someone is at risk). I can assure you, after much research and some experience, that it is much better to pick up your marbles and run away than it is to stand your ground and pull out a firearm, even if your intent is only to make it known that you are able to defend yourself. This is called brandishing and in most states it is a felony - considered similar to assault (going back to English common law). If you are going to draw, regardless of where the muzzle is pointed, you have made a threat of grievous bodily harm against your opponent and raised the stakes BIG TIME. If you draw, you must be in a position where you have decided to take action and that means that you are intending to shoot to STOP THE AGGRESSION. (Note: NOT to "kill" but "to stop the aggression".) Big difference. And once the aggression has terminated you are under a microscope to terminate your assault on the perp. Like the pharmacist who put two in the back of the perp recently as the perp was departing. Perp spun around to leave in a hurry, pharmacist had lost fine motor skills which is a given, two rounds from a light triggered semi into the back of a now dead perp. Pharmacist lost everything.

    Train. Think. Train. Think. Be safe.

  10. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdcleanfun View Post
    Hi, Gabby, yes it's been a while, how have you been? How are the studies going?

    I was merely turning over the coin to present another side of the discussion. It was along the lines of reason that's been expressed on this site from time to time: that as there is no reason to prohibit anyone from having any firearm at any time, then there should be no reason to prohibit anyone from going anywhere at any time. That said, I don't go into rowdy bars, nor non-rowdy bars much anymore, nor into the streets if there's a riot on. I was just playing devil's advocate. I don't advocate anyone putting themselves in "sticky" situations. I can no longer run let alone shuffle away from things when they go bad so I don't purposely put myself in negative situations if I can avoid them. My DH and DS may disagree, but imho I may be crazy, but I'm not nuts!
    I'm doing well! How about yourself? Studies are going! This week is a little pressing, finals seem to be right around the corner, along with term papers.

    Well we always need someone to play devil's advocate now don't we? In truth, it is always appreciated to hear anothers' perspective!
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

  11. #150
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    Hey torontoguy: Once again a great post. I was just about to post an obvious "what if" and your post basically discussed it for me.l This week went to a breakfast where a former NYC LEO and CCWP trainer gave a talk. I amy be incorrectly interpreting what he said, but the example is --you are walking down the street (most likely in the evening) and a 1 or 2 guys begin to approach you, either on your side of walkway or from across the street. They have a "look" that bothers you and makes you more aware of them than say your grandma. They are now 10 ft or so from you and you just sense a potential problem--you have your CCW. What do you do from a proactive point of view? 1)You can let them come right up to you--maybe all they want are directions to somewhere--- OR 2)you can say speak to them at that distance with one outstretched hand saying that you appreciate their interraction, you are armed, and you would prefer they indicate at that distance what they want with you, as your other hand demonstrably shows an intent to present a gun---OR 3)you can actually present the gun, fully or partially,as you hold up your outstrectched hand. I would think that action #2 is the proper call although, as I write this in the peace and comfort of my computer room, I would probably be wetting my pants a bit regardless of 1, 2 or 3.
    Comments?

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