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Thread: Insult my wife

  1. #41
    I'm new on this board and find this discussion quite interesting. As a long-time baseball/softball umpire, I have been threatened with violence many times by hotheads, usually slow-pitch softball players full of liquid courage. Some of these hotheads were police officers of the township where the game was being played. I eject them from the game for foul-mouthed insults, and they tell me they'll be waiting in the parking lot when the game's over. So far, no one's ever actually followed through on a threat. So far. (College softball, high school baseball—never have had a single incident. It's the 30-year-old fantasy big leaguers trying to prove their manhood who are the problem. And unlike when I played, there's now a lot of drinking before the games.)

    What I am expected to do as an official is certainly in conflict with my long southern heritage that dictates that if you let an insult stand, you're disgraced. (Interestingly, this is the same "code" that is taken to extremes by certain urban youth today, who beat their girlfriends mercilessly for speaking out of turn and blow away anybody who looks at them funny.) Speaking of insults to your wife, about 150 years ago my great-great-whatever grandfather (a judge) once shot a defendant dead right in a courtroom. The man had burglarized the judge's house and in doing so had entered the bedroom of the judge's wife (when the judge was away). This was tantamount to rape. In those days, that kind of personal affront had to be handled by the aggrieved party; it could not be left to the authorities.

    I have "carried" for only a year now (just switched from Ruger 101 .357 magnum to LCP), and I can state definitely that having that weapon available, and knowing both the power and the responsibility I have, makes me react very calmly to almost anything that happens. When I am carrying, I'm a vastly gentler person, meticulous about traffic laws and general decorum. I suspect it would take a great deal of provocation to get me to draw my weapon or even mention that I was armed. I also figure that if I start trading insults and then have to use my weapon, a court will say that I participated in escalating the situation. Carrying a weapon also removes the necessity or temptation to do any posturing to dissuade the other party from persisting. In fact, I can see how carrying a weapon actually reduces violence. I wouldn't risk my CCW permit for some idiot.

    Well, I've signed up to attend a seminar run by a couple of lawyers who specialize in CCW issues, so I'll be sure to ask them about what to do if somebody insults your wife. (In my particular case, the guy would probably get his eyes clawed out, and not by me.)

    By the way, I agree with the previous poster who said that if you're out there looking to be insulted, you will be.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoy View Post
    By the way, I agree with the previous poster who said that if you're out there looking to be insulted, you will be.
    Or if you are terribly worried about it like JJFlash seems to be.

  4. #43
    Since JJ posted this as a scenario thread, the scenario of verbal insults DO NOT warrant any kind of action other than walking away. Carrying or not, you walk away because how do you know the instigator doesn't have a gun?

    Taking the scenario a step farther... what if the perp spits on your wife? You keep walking.

    However, the second he lays a hand on her or me or he purposefully is blocking our path and will not let us pass, he'll be staring down the barrel of my XD, laid out on the ground and the cops will be enroute. Assault begins with a threat; battery begins with a single touch regardless of a poke or a punch.
    Assault and battery - differences?

    Oh, and I'm from the south, born and raised. Yes you respect women, especially another man's woman. But to risk your life over words is over-rated.
    SC CWP
    NH non-res CWP
    NRA Member

  5. #44
    One other thing... if you draw, call the cops whether you shoot or not. Be the first to report the incident.
    SC CWP
    NH non-res CWP
    NRA Member

  6. #45
    "what if the perp spits on your wife?"

    You can't let that one go, and nobody would expect you to. That's extreme provocation, and you would be justified in assuming that the spitter intended further harm. It's like blocking your path, and far more serious than merely poking you in the chest with a finger and telling you off about where you parked. It's the equivalent of "fighting words"—words that any reasonable person would expect to provoke a violent response—and would certainly be deemed assault.

    Whether at that point you would be justified in drawing your weapon would depend on many factors, and I wouldn't claim to have a precise handle on them all. Were there three other thugs with the spitter? Was it in an alley at 3 a.m. or on a busy street in the daytime? Was the spitter a beefed-up monster with prison tats or a weird-looking little squirt with pink hair? How old and big are you? Did the spitter spit in your wife's direction and some of it hit her, or did he walk right up and spit right in her face? Did this confrontation come right out of the blue, or did something lead up to it?

    As I mentioned in another post, I'm attending a seminar on CCW soon. I'll pose the "spat on my wife" scenario to the lawyers.

    I read about a case recently where college students who were passing out politically incorrect literature were spat upon by other students determined to enforce political correctness on campus. As much as I despise the p.c. fascists, I would say that you could not draw your weapon under those circumstances.

    Never forget that the courts do not operate in a vacuum, but are subject to political pressure that can overwhelm the merits of a case. The Duke University phony rape case is the foremost recent example.

  7. #46
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    Bama, if you do pose that spitting question to the lawyers, will you please report back on this thread. That is one scenario where I know that it would be hard for me to tolerate...even though I KNOW I should walk away. And with my wife being Cambodian...the opportunity of running across "racial" prejeduce/intolerance is a very possible.

    I also hesitate to think about drawing my weapon as a "deterant" to violence. I understand the theory of "staring down the barrel of my pistol" as a deterant...but I have made up my mind (and trained as such) that if I HAVE been forced to draw the weapon I am most likely in a situation where I will HAVE to be using it.

    Each scenario is different, and that's what's great about this forum is the exercise we go through with the scenarios.
    Playing the possible scenarios in one's head...and predetermining a proper response was one TRAINING TECHNIQUE that was really PUSHED in my CCW class.
    GREAT exercise.

    The difference to me boils down to "social violence" -vs- "sociapathic violence".
    If there is still talking going on...it's still "social" and should be walked away from if possible.

    If the talking never started/has ended...and the situation is going directly to "violence" then it's "asocial/sociopathic" and when I draw I'm doing it to stop the confrontation...and no words are necessary except one last warning "STOP!!!".

    One thing that should ALSO be discussed is the need for "situational awareness" to prevent yourself/wife from getting into these situations.

    Yes, SOMETIMES it's impossible to prevent (surrounded in a grocery store parking lot, for example)...but the typical "social" threat/insult situation usually leave an opening to "walk away".

    It's the situations that go DIRECTLY to violence (without discussion) that concern me the most, and what I train for.
    And those situations are typically surprises, and happen with no warning/discussion...and are "sociopathic" in nature.
    The kind where people are out to just have fun killing/assaulting you or your wife.
    Those situations may start with a friendly smile and a request for the time or spare change (as they get close enough to strike without warning)...rather than an obvious insult.

  8. #47
    arizonaguide, I am making up a list of questions and situations for this seminar (October 10), and I will certainly pose the spitting question and report back on it.

    As in other areas, we don't have a problem with the obvious cases—the cut-and-dried ones that never make it to court. Yes, if the guy has knocked you down and is coming at you with an axe, you can shoot him. No, if the guy says, "That's my parking place," you can't shoot him. It's that vast sea of situations in the middle that are problematic. I do know that many, many factors are involved. I also know, as my own lawyer (the county prosecutor) told me, politics does play a part. In his words: "Maybe the situation hadn't reached the point where the old lady had the legal right to shoot the burglar with the long record of brutalizing old ladies, but good luck getting a conviction."

  9. #48
    This has been EXACTLY my point all along: that there are situations which I (and others) would find VERY hard to walk away from. For me, as I said when I opened this thread, insulting my wife would be one. Spitting on her is a no-brainer for me - no way would I walk away. But that's just me. Others may have different scenarios and tolerance levels. I do get a lot from these discussions and may just alter my approach given that I've had time to read these forums and think about things ahead of time. Tactical handgun training which I have taken expressly encouraged the students to do just that: think ahead of time as to how you might want to react and how you should react, giving thought to the tactical and legal considerations. For those who tend to think that things are "cut and dried" and know definitively how they are going to react, that's great. Others see a lot of "gray area" (I do) and are not so sure. I'm appreciative of the folks who take the time to post thoughtful insights on this forum.

  10. #49
    I would consider spitting on me or a loved one assault because the person could be carrying a disease like AIDS.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I would consider spitting on me or a loved one assault because the person could be carrying a disease like AIDS.
    Hepititis is a more likely threat, but agreed, that spitting on someone would be a step above simple name calling, and would illicit the appropriate response from me.



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    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

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