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Thread: When to Draw

  1. #11
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    Oct 2009
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    Paw Paw, MI
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    mostly good points here...

    Every situation is going to have its own characteristics. Like most of you, of course I wouldn't draw it in response to a verbal threat. However, I can't go with the mentality that "I'm not going to draw unless I'm going to shoot". I have to believe that there are some situations where you're justified in drawing your gun, but upon drawing your gun the aggressor immediately ceases to continue his threatening behavior. This would be a draw-but-no-shoot scenario. Think of how many times we've read a story about how a handgun had stopped an attack without even firing a shot? I just don't think you can legitimately say that you won't draw unless you're 100% sure you're going to shoot. If you draw and the perp immediately hits the floor, you could be in a world of sheet if you were to shoot. Most certainly there are also situations when there's no time for reaction to your drawn weapon before you're forced to shoot them with it. I also completely understand that drawing your weapon can escalate a situation from "potentially dangerous" to "deadly" if done at the wrong time. Never draw in an attempt to cool the situation. Only draw if the situation has already escalated to the point where you're genuinely concerned for your life or that of an innocent 3rd party (at least as it's written in Michigan).

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  3. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South Haven, Michigan
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    17
    Quote Originally Posted by hopnpop View Post
    Every situation is going to have its own characteristics. Like most of you, of course I wouldn't draw it in response to a verbal threat. However, I can't go with the mentality that "I'm not going to draw unless I'm going to shoot". I have to believe that there are some situations where you're justified in drawing your gun, but upon drawing your gun the aggressor immediately ceases to continue his threatening behavior. This would be a draw-but-no-shoot scenario. Think of how many times we've read a story about how a handgun had stopped an attack without even firing a shot? I just don't think you can legitimately say that you won't draw unless you're 100% sure you're going to shoot. If you draw and the perp immediately hits the floor, you could be in a world of sheet if you were to shoot. Most certainly there are also situations when there's no time for reaction to your drawn weapon before you're forced to shoot them with it. I also completely understand that drawing your weapon can escalate a situation from "potentially dangerous" to "deadly" if done at the wrong time. Never draw in an attempt to cool the situation. Only draw if the situation has already escalated to the point where you're genuinely concerned for your life or that of an innocent 3rd party (at least as it's written in Michigan).
    Agree 100% with this.

    BTW, good to see a fellow Western Michigander!

  4. #13
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    Jul 2009
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    GA but a resident of TN
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    170
    Quote Originally Posted by hopnpop View Post
    I have to believe that there are some situations where you're justified in drawing your gun, but upon drawing your gun the aggressor immediately ceases to continue his threatening behavior. This would be a draw-but-no-shoot scenario. Think of how many times we've read a story about how a handgun had stopped an attack without even firing a shot?
    I kinda agree with you how ever you have to remember your not allowed to draw your gun to de-escalate the situation. If your going to draw you have to be prepared to shoot. If you think that drawing your weapon will cause the guy to turn and run thats fine and you have the right to think that how ever if the situation warrants you to draw then that means that once the weapon leaves the holster and the situtation either stays the same or gets worst then you are going to fire. I have never needed my weapon but at the same time I have not "needed" my drivers license in over 8 years. The fact is with the weapon comes the ability to take a life and you and the BG has to know that if a weapon leaves the holster then a bullet should be leaving the barrel.

    I would like to think that if I were ever in a situtation that caused me to draw then I have already made the decesion that I am going to stop the BG. No different then if someone breaks into my house via a window and I grab the shotty and cock it I would like to think they guy will be running as fast as he could but if he continues he and I both know someone (hopfully him) will be meeting their maker.

    I would say IMHO I have already made the decesion that if I draw I will fire unless we play the "what if" game and the BG turns and runs or drops to his knees/belly and starts pleading or praying.
    "The purpose of war is not to die for your country. The purpose of war is to ensure that the other guy dies for his country." - General Patton

  5. #14
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    Oct 2009
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    Paw Paw, MI
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    fine lines

    Quote Originally Posted by marionandjohn View Post
    I kinda agree with you how ever you have to remember your not allowed to draw your gun to de-escalate the situation. If your going to draw you have to be prepared to shoot. If you think that drawing your weapon will cause the guy to turn and run thats fine and you have the right to think that how ever if the situation warrants you to draw then that means that once the weapon leaves the holster and the situtation either stays the same or gets worst then you are going to fire. I have never needed my weapon but at the same time I have not "needed" my drivers license in over 8 years. The fact is with the weapon comes the ability to take a life and you and the BG has to know that if a weapon leaves the holster then a bullet should be leaving the barrel.

    I would like to think that if I were ever in a situtation that caused me to draw then I have already made the decesion that I am going to stop the BG. No different then if someone breaks into my house via a window and I grab the shotty and cock it I would like to think they guy will be running as fast as he could but if he continues he and I both know someone (hopfully him) will be meeting their maker.

    I would say IMHO I have already made the decesion that if I draw I will fire unless we play the "what if" game and the BG turns and runs or drops to his knees/belly and starts pleading or praying.
    I'm not talking about drawing to de-escalate. I agree with your statement that "if you're going to draw you have to be prepared to shoot". I agree with that 100%, while also saying that you must also be prepared to hold your fire. You said "...if I were ever in a situation that caused me to draw then I have already made the decision that I'm going to stop the BG." Again, I agree with that. I'm only emphasizing that there's always the possibility of the BG, upon having a gun drawn on him, will decide his life's worth keeping and cooperate/cease.

    "...the BG has to know that if a weapon leaves the holster then a bullet should be leaving the barrel." Unless he immediately ceases to be a threat. If he doesn't respond to a gun being drawn, then of course, riddle his shirt with holes!!!

  6. #15
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    Jul 2009
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    Mass. Northshore
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    [QUOTE=hopnpop;93343] I'm only emphasizing that there's always the possibility of the BG, upon having a gun drawn on him, will decide his life's worth keeping and cooperate/cease.


    This is true. If a BG pulls a knife and takes a step closer. This will make you draw, but he might stop his attack. In this sitution your not going to shoot

  7. #16
    Wlhen I train, I shoot the gun (controlled pair to the thorasic cavity, 1 shot to the ocular cranial cavity), as taught during defensive handgun training. So, obviously, in this scenario, the decision has been made to shoot and so I train to shoot effectively.

    However, I did have one instructor who demonstrated a defensive tactic wherein the weapon was drawn and aimed and the GG yelled "STOP" very loudly and agressively. At the same time, the GG is getting some distance between himself and the BG.

    In both cases, the intent is to "stop the threat". I submit that if the threat can be stopped without shooting, that is preferrable for all concerned (nobody dies, I don't incur possible emotional, financial or legal problems).

    My .02 cents

  8. My personal opinion is that a firearm can be used effectively to de-escalate a possible deadly situation.

    If someone is walking towards me yelling at me because I took their parking space, no draw, no shoot, it's a verbal argument. If said person is yelling at me and walking towards me with a baseball bat in an aggressive manner (anywhere other than a baseball park) i'd tell them to stay back, if they didn't than i'd draw my weapon and tell them to stay back, while retreating to my vehicle if possible OR to an area where witnesses will be present. "SIR STAY BACK, SIR STOP STOP". Why?

    Should you be forced to use deadly force what do the witnesses say?

    I don't know why they were fighting but the guy with the gun kept telling the other person to stay back, he said "stop" AND he was trying to get away.

    My state does not have a duty to retreat law. HOWEVER, I feel it is my obligation to try to escape danger, and to avoid using deadly force if at all possible including looking like a coward and leaving.

    EDIT: Of course this depends on the circumstances. Is the guy dressed in a baseball jersey? How far away is he? etc. this is just an example.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  9. #18
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    Oct 2009
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    Paw Paw, MI
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    JJFLASH and CLEARSIGHTTACTICAL: More good points from you both. I guess that demonstrates just how unique every situation is. In the "guy with baseball bat" scenario, even tho the gun effectively de-escalated the situation, it was still initially drawn to defend and protect yourself. He was armed with a bat which gave you enough concern over life and limb to draw. You didn't draw to calm him down, you drew to stop him (and did so without firing a shot). Bravo.

  10. Brandishing

    In Fl., a brandishing conviction carries mandatory 3 yr. sentence. The judge has no choice, so keep it concealed unless you're going to use it!

  11. #20
    In Texas the penal code says that "the threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified". If the pulling of your weapon produces a change of heart on the part of the aggressor then you have accomplished your objective. That is not brandishing and is not illegal at least in Texas.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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