Third Party Protection? - Page 6
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Thread: Third Party Protection?

  1. #51
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    Hey mappow: I appreciate all of your comments; I think they are "right on". I do not like to have anything on my body other than my clothes and cannot stand heavy objects attached to same. Having said that I did want to be in a position to have some defense via a CCWP and a CC firearm and chose one of the small mouseguns in 380. I practice at targets and specifically practice point shoot because I truly believe it is the most efficient use of such a firearm for defense. By definition, IMO, this firearm is as defensive and close-in as you can get and only serves that purpose (IMO). You mention a 1911 and now we are talking about a totally different set of rules and responsibilities and I can understand that your definition of what can be accomplished for yourself and others has been expanded substantially from what I perceive is my limited defensive role. Let us hope that neither of us ever have to demonstrate our proficiency. Be safe brother.

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  3. #52
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    Amen!
    Also this thread is a bit confusing. If you see someone assaulting a "Stranger" to the extent that you have a no doubt that without aid to the "Stranger" that person would have extreme injuries and or death. AND NOT try to prevent, I'd say that you are negligent almost to a point of abetting the crime. Not you of course, but any that do not want to risk the intervention for what ever cause or reason. That person being assaulted could be and is someones wife, daughter, grand mother. Would I not want someone to assist and intervene if it was mine???? Ya damn straight I would. Hence it's almost a Quid Pro Quo to society.

    ALWAYS IN TWO ROUND BURSTS

  4. #53
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    Hey mappow: A further comment on your last reply would be that if the situation is such that you will be overwhelmed by the assaulter because he can overpower you both physically and firearm-wise, it is a situation where you must realize that all you will be doing is becoming the second person who is now in danger of losing their life. There is no doubt in my mind, and from your replies--yours also, that if the situation is such that you or I can stop the madness or assist in any way, we will do so and not just turn our back on the situation because it is a stranger. This goes not only for an assault but a house fire or a traffic accident or any of a host of possible scenarios that can affect the life of someone else. "Do onto others as you would want others to do onto yourself".

  5. #54
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    Everyone is related to someone. Wife, daughter, grandmother, husband, son, grandfather, brother, sister, cousins, aunts and uncles, etc., even the bum on the street. That kind of rhetoric has been used, re-used, and over used to the point of nausea. It relates to any and every situation on the planet. Helping anyone in trouble is second nature, but, initiation requires common sense, wherein lies the problem. There are hundreds of scenarios , but only one scenario involves the use of a firearm and the probability of taking a life in that decision, action, and assumed responsibility to save a life. The consequences for being a hero in this "defense of a third party" discussion, compared to the burning house and traffic accident scenarios mentioned, are as far apart and far reaching as the differences of the scenarios.

    If your the hero type and you have nothing to lose, and your conscience will not allow you to live with yourself if you don't intervene, then do what you must do to satisfy your self image and conscience. For those who have families and are responsible for their well being, and choose not to intervene due to the overwhelming possibility of financial ruin, must refrain in good conscience and dedication to family. Each of us have our convictions, conscience, and individual responsibility's, and limitations.
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  6. #55
    I see both sides of this argument and both make sense. I probably won't know what I'd do until the situation actually arises. I also wonder about the case where you arrive late to an altercation and mistage the BG for the good guy and vice versa. Maybe the two have been wrestling for the gun and the good guy has just gained control and is in the process of pointing it at the BG. Might you shoot the wrong man? If you simply yell "freeze" or something like that might the good guy think you're an accomplice and turn the gun on you? There are all kinds of scenarios you can dream up. Be careful out there.
    Avidshooter (Texas)
    "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." -- Plutarch

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvidshooterTX View Post
    I see both sides of this argument and both make sense. I probably won't know what I'd do until the situation actually arises. I also wonder about the case where you arrive late to an altercation and mistage the BG for the good guy and vice versa. Maybe the two have been wrestling for the gun and the good guy has just gained control and is in the process of pointing it at the BG. Might you shoot the wrong man? If you simply yell "freeze" or something like that might the good guy think you're an accomplice and turn the gun on you? There are all kinds of scenarios you can dream up. Be careful out there.


    I agree with your reply, especially that which I highlighted.
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Everyone is related to someone. Wife, daughter, grandmother, husband, son, grandfather, brother, sister, cousins, aunts and uncles, etc., even the bum on the street. That kind of rhetoric has been used, re-used, and over used to the point of nausea. It relates to any and every situation on the planet. Helping anyone in trouble is second nature, but, initiation requires common sense, wherein lies the problem. There are hundreds of scenarios , but only one scenario involves the use of a firearm and the probability of taking a life in that decision, action, and assumed responsibility to save a life. The consequences for being a hero in this "defense of a third party" discussion, compared to the burning house and traffic accident scenarios mentioned, are as far apart and far reaching as the differences of the scenarios.

    If your the hero type and you have nothing to lose, and your conscience will not allow you to live with yourself if you don't intervene, then do what you must do to satisfy your self image and conscience. For those who have families and are responsible for their well being, and choose not to intervene due to the overwhelming possibility of financial ruin, must refrain in good conscience and dedication to family. Each of us have our convictions, conscience, and individual responsibility's, and limitations.
    If your the hero type and you have nothing to lose, and your conscience will not allow you to live with yourself if you don't intervene, then do what you must do to satisfy your self image and conscience.

    Well only half of that pertains to me. I am no hero that is for sure. I pray that I never have to use my firearm against a BG to defend myself, my family, my friends or anyone else. However I do not think my conscience will allow me to stand by and do nothing if and when the time comes that I am called on to do what ever is in my power to help someone. If it happens I will rely on God's strength to do the right thing.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  9. #58
    It does not distress me at all that we have a wide divergence of opinion on this issue. That's as it should be; different people carry for different reasons. As noted before by HK4U, I think, there is no onus one way or another on anyone's response to this question. We are all built differently and view the world through our own personal lenses.

    There are a myriad of reasons why people keep and bear arms: personal self-defense and defense of loved ones, to fend off wolves regardless of whom the wolves have targetted, as a means to protect against a tyrannical gov't.

    We all train differently, too, as a function of why we carry. As noted, I made a conscious decision some time ago to be a sheepdog, so I train accordingly (extensive defensive and tactical training at a reputable institute). With such training, I would be remiss not to use my skills in defense of someone else. However, I can see the day, when I'm quite a bit older, less mobile, much slower reflexes, when I might simply be able to only use a "belly-gun" on some BG. At that time, I'll cease to be a sheepdog as my skills deterioriate, and will simply carry for personal self-defense. There isn't a lot of expertise required to stick a snubby in some fool's ribs and pull the trigger (as I think AvidShooterTX pointed out in another thread).

    I expect that others' response to this question might change over time, also, according to personal experiences. We had a young coed abducted by knifepoint in broad daylight here some years ago and eventually murdered by her known sexual pervert abductor. I and many others spent many hours combing the snow-filled ditches looking for her. (Her body was ultimately found after spring snowmelt.) She was young, beautiful, and hard-working and I shed tears for her more than once. I vowed at that time that I would DESTROY any sleazy bastard I caught attempting anything like this. That's where I'm at today. I could change later in my old(er) age.

    Just me, no better, no worse, than anyone else.

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Try the 20/20 rule in the future..Read 20 verses before & 20 verses after, it may help you in picking the ones you want to believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I know you're not trying to be a smart-ass, but give me a break.
    Stick around here long enough Ringo and hopefully you'll recognize these are two of the more prominent posters who are NOT to be trifled with. It's their way or the highway, in most cases.

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    If your the hero type and you have nothing to lose, and your conscience will not allow you to live with yourself if you don't intervene, then do what you must do to satisfy your self image and conscience.

    Well only half of that pertains to me. I am no hero that is for sure. I pray that I never have to use my firearm against a BG to defend myself, my family, my friends or anyone else. However I do not think my conscience will allow me to stand by and do nothing if and when the time comes that I am called on to do what ever is in my power to help someone. If it happens I will rely on God's strength to do the right thing.
    I can agree with what you're saying about never having to use your firearm, I think we all feel that way. It's the word"THINK" that is the real truth of the matter. No-one really KNOWS what they will do "until the situation actually arises". And, I think we would all be led by our conscience to do whatever is in our power to help someone. To help someone rolls right off of the tongue as easy as spit, however, because this is a GUN forum it must be said that "whatever is in your power to help someone" ( CCW ) is directly related to KILLING SOMEONE in the process.

    My question pertaining to 'third party protection" was never intended to mean yelling, throwing rocks, jumping on the BG'S back, etc., shooting & killing to protect a third party is the point in question. If the power to help someone is to draw your weapon to shoot & kill someone else, then we're on the same page. It's a lot easier to say "to help someone" than to say "kill to help someone". What we "think" and what we" know" will be self evident only when the situation actually arises. Personally, I prefer God's wisdom rather than God's strength in such situations.
    The Most Important Thing That You Can Do In This Life, Is To Determine "WHERE" You Will "LIVE" In The Next Life.

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