Third Party Protection?
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Thread: Third Party Protection?

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Third Party Protection?

    I hear many people talk about how they would intervene with the use of their weapon (deadly force) to protect or defend a third party (anyone aside from your immediate family) whose life is in danger. I'd like to know how many here would or would not, and why. I'll start by saying that I would not. I carry for personal defense and defense of my family only. I'm not heartless or un- compassionate, my refusal is directly related to the financial burden that my family would suffer should I have to defend my action, and also end up in jail to boot. I will not jeopardize the welfare of my family for any stranger, period. How about you?
    AMERICA'S EPITAPH
    Since They Did Not See Fit To Acknowledge God, He Gave Them Up To A Depraved Mind, To Do What Should Not Be Done

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Gray Court, SC
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    2,934
    You mean to tell me that if you saw someone being assaulted with a weapon you wouldn't intervene! I'm sorry but I would in a heart beat. You might want to read your AZ Castle Doctrine to see what rights you have in a situation like this. For example, a woman was being stabbed would you walk away or protect her? Deadly force is not always needed to stop an attack.
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  4. #3
    What if you hear a woman screaming in a house and can see through the window that is she is being attacked by a man with a knife?

    Now, what if the man is John Wayne Bobbit and he woke up while Lorena was attacking him, he grabbed the knife and was stabbing her in self defense?

    Who you going to shoot?

  5. #4
    It of course may depend on the circumstance but the short answer is yes. I do not think I could stand by while some punk raped and killed a woman, murdered a child etc. One thing I am glad for is the fact that I live in a state where I have the same legal right to use force up to and including deadly force to defend a third party as I do to defend myself.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  6. #5
    Yep. Depends on the circumstances, as HK has pointed out, but yep. Just the way I'm built.

    I'm aware, of course, of the legal, emotional, and financial ramifications but no way do I watch some innocent fellow human being be severely victimized or killed if I have the opportunity to prevent it.

    There's only one Judge whose opinion I worry about and He's got my back.

    I'm a sheepdog. And sheepdogs fend off the wolves.

  7. #6
    OK.. Let's try this one..
    You come across a woman being attacked at knife point, and it's obvious that she is about to be raped.. (let's say in a park or something, not inside a house). SO, you know he is not defending himself, but about to perform a terrible crime.
    Do you just walk away?
    Walk away and call 911, knowing that the deed will be done prior to the police arriving?
    Shoot the bastard?
    OR.. coming to the the Original Posters main concern "Financial Burden" Do you draw the attackers attention (by yelling at him, shoving him, etc), something to break off the tunnel vision of his attack and thus stopping the crime. It is unlikely he is going to continue knowing that you are standing there watching, especially since you already have your phone in your hand calling 911 right?? So, he is likely to do one of two things..
    One, run away
    Two, turn aggressively toward you - Now.. IF YOU should need to stop the threat, you are NOT protecting a third party, you are protecting yourself. You will run through your usual list of rules you have in your head before you pull the trigger to insure your life was threatened, you have 911 on the phone, they will know the guy was in the middle of a crime & hear you telling the guy to stop before the shots are fired. You have at least the woman that was being attacked as a witness..

    So, I agree with the original poster in general; However, there are circumstances that morally you should intervene... The important thing in these rare situations IMO is to break off the threat to the 3rd party and if the threat is then drawn towards you, IF YOU MUST, then you eliminate the threat. You are no longer protecting a 3rd party, but protecting yourself..

    Gulf Coast, Floriduh
    Sccy is the limit

  8. Quote Originally Posted by HootmonSccy View Post
    OK.. Let's try this one..
    You come across a woman being attacked at knife point, and it's obvious that she is about to be raped.. (let's say in a park or something, not inside a house). SO, you know he is not defending himself, but about to perform a terrible crime.
    Do you just walk away?
    Walk away and call 911, knowing that the deed will be done prior to the police arriving?
    Shoot the bastard?
    OR.. coming to the the Original Posters main concern "Financial Burden" Do you draw the attackers attention (by yelling at him, shoving him, etc), something to break off the tunnel vision of his attack and thus stopping the crime. It is unlikely he is going to continue knowing that you are standing there watching, especially since you already have your phone in your hand calling 911 right?? So, he is likely to do one of two things..
    One, run away
    Two, turn aggressively toward you - Now.. IF YOU should need to stop the threat, you are NOT protecting a third party, you are protecting yourself. You will run through your usual list of rules you have in your head before you pull the trigger to insure your life was threatened, you have 911 on the phone, they will know the guy was in the middle of a crime & hear you telling the guy to stop before the shots are fired. You have at least the woman that was being attacked as a witness..

    So, I agree with the original poster in general; However, there are circumstances that morally you should intervene... The important thing in these rare situations IMO is to break off the threat to the 3rd party and if the threat is then drawn towards you, IF YOU MUST, then you eliminate the threat. You are no longer protecting a 3rd party, but protecting yourself..
    I agree, distract or acknowledge your presences/witnessing the crime, after calling 911. The 2nd part to this question is... if your target is threatening to do harm with a knife, would your weapon be at the ready when you give your acknowledgment...

  9. #8
    Join Date
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    Hey Y'all: I really believe that Ringo, in the sweet, warm confines of his computer room, can easily compose his comments on this thread but I have to believe that the replies to his thread are what he would truly do. As others have said, it depends on the circumstances but the "alter ego rule", at least in SC is crystal clear in its intent; we are not talking about being a gunslinging vigilante, we are talking about protecting someone who is about to be murdered or is being subjected to great bodily harm---Ringo is telling us he would walk away--I do not believe him. If he really means what he says, I would love to have him respond to the replies.

  10. #9
    O.k. here is a couple of what if's. What if someone was attacking your wife or kids. Would you want someone that had the opportunity to intervene and save them to do so or would you want them to walk away and do nothing? Or lets look at it another way. You watch someone raping and killing a woman, walk away and do nothing. The scum bag gets away. A week, a month, or a year later while you are away the same guy breaks into your home and kills your wife. How do you feel now about letting him go when you had a chance to stop him?

    In the Old Testament we read how Cain because of jealously murders his on brother Able. God comes to Cain and asks "Where is your brother Able"? (Of course God knew all along what he had done). Cain try's to avoid the question by asking God a rhetorical question, "Am I my brothers keeper".

    Lets move on to the New Testament to get the answer.


    Matthew 25
    41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

    43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

    44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

    When saw you being attacked and did not help you? (My addidition)


    45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    For all of us that are Christians the answer is , Yes we are our brothers keeper.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. #10
    Both of the following have been posted before but with a lot of new guys here I thought this would be a good time to review both.

    A Nation of Cowards

    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

    as JJ said I have chosen to be a sheepdog. I can do nothing else.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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