It Starts With a Punch - Page 2
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Thread: It Starts With a Punch

  1. #11
    Unless you could articulate extremely well that your life was in danger I wouldnt shoot. I think that most people carry something in addition to a firearm. I know that i carry a very small can of inferno pepper spray from Cold Steel as well as a firearm.

    I wouldnt want to be sitting in the hot seat in a courthouse answering why i "murdered an unarmed man."

    Thats just my opinion
    -Austin

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  3. #12
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    Someone punches you in an altercation that you did not start and want no part of and you pull out your CC firearm and shoot him you are going to prison if I am on a jury--period/end of story, unless you can convince me that you were in immediate danger of death or great bodily injury--sorry--in my book a punch does not measure up.If the punching continues--may be another story but very iffy circumstances. Sure as heck would not wait until I am barely conscious to defend myself---where that point is--that is the problem, but it is not, IMO. on the first punch. Let me say, however, that I wish you could and I wish I could, but being CC has its burdens as well as its advantages and this is one of the burdens.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Someone punches you in an altercation that you did not start and want no part of and you pull out your CC firearm and shoot him you are going to prison if I am on a jury--period/end of story, unless you can convince me that you were in immediate danger of death or great bodily injury--sorry--in my book a punch does not measure up.If the punching continues--may be another story but very iffy circumstances. Sure as heck would not wait until I am barely conscious to defend myself---where that point is--that is the problem, but it is not, IMO. on the first punch. Let me say, however, that I wish you could and I wish I could, but being CC has its burdens as well as its advantages and this is one of the burdens.
    I guess we need to define whether this is a simple "hit and wait' or an attack. Somebody attacks anyone who is minding their business and they shoot the attacker is going free if I'm on the jurry. Since we need unanimous verdict to convict, hopefully you and I will be on the same jury.

    It is not up to someone who is being attacked to know whether or not the attacker is going to continue until they are dead. STOP THE THREAT. Probably in SC, with our VERY strong Castle Doctrine, you would have a hard time convicting, depending of course on the circumstance.

  5. #14
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    Unless I can draw and shoot before the other guy can get close enough to touch me, my weapon is staying holstered for my own safety.

    Definitely staying holstered if he is close enough to throw a punch.

    If I can get enough distance between us so that this is not the case, then it could probably be argued that the person is not a lethal threat unless he is armed.

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Someone punches you in an altercation that you did not start and want no part of and you pull out your CC firearm and shoot him you are going to prison if I am on a jury--period/end of story, unless you can convince me that you were in immediate danger of death or great bodily injury--sorry--in my book a punch does not measure up.If the punching continues--may be another story but very iffy circumstances. Sure as heck would not wait until I am barely conscious to defend myself---where that point is--that is the problem, but it is not, IMO. on the first punch. Let me say, however, that I wish you could and I wish I could, but being CC has its burdens as well as its advantages and this is one of the burdens.
    Interesting. You would convict a man if he happen to react fast enough after the first punch is thrown at him?

    But in the same breath you admit you wouldn't let someone beat you to within an inch of life.....

    Luckily in Alabama assult is considered a viable reason to defend yourself with deadly physcial force. After any punch is thrown at me, I will react accordingly. Who is to say that he would stop after just the first punch?

    And I will choose a judge rather than a jury--someone who knows the law.

    As a CC holder, we have the rights of every other American. The right to not turn tail and run after some bully encounter. Never let your rights be denied because of wrong doers.

  7. #16
    You should remember that if you act rashly, you may find yourself locked in a cage with a guy named Tyrone that thinks you're cute.
    If you shoot, make sure you had no reasonable alternative. There is very little common sense in the system these days.
    War to the Knife, Knife to the hilt.
    If we don't want to live in a trashy area, we all have to be willing to help pick up the trash.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by armyman_83 View Post
    What about the simple argument that turns into a punch?
    This begs the question: What were you arguing about in the first place? No "simple" argument goes to blows. If it does, it is considered mutual combat. There is no legal definition for one combatant being disadvataged by size or Karate, invoking the "gun" option. Any introduction of fatal firearms discharge by only one armed combatant will find that gun owner guilty of murder by a judge, jury, the court of public opinion or any rational person who "knows the law."

    No grey area there at all.

  9. #18
    Shoot an unarmed person and you are going to a PMITA prison. Period.

    If we are carrying with a concealed license we are not Law Enforcement, we dont have a "duty" to do anything but try to get us and our family the heck outta there and give the authorities a good description. Therefor anything we do we are liable for.

    There will never be a day that: he was bigger than me, i was scared, he could kill me, he started it. Is going to be a legit reason to murder someone that is unarmed.

    Solution: Either carry other options (pepper spray), or learn other options (self defense techniques). Get off the couch and get into the gym. Dont tell me you dont have time, you are sitting here right now wasting it.
    -Austin

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    This begs the question: What were you arguing about in the first place? No "simple" argument goes to blows. If it does, it is considered mutual combat. There is no legal definition for one combatant being disadvataged by size or Karate, invoking the "gun" option. Any introduction of fatal firearms discharge by only one armed combatant will find that gun owner guilty of murder by a judge, jury, the court of public opinion or any rational person who "knows the law."

    No grey area there at all.
    I am not saying that you are started any argument. I said that if you are, more or less, approached or hasseled by someone. I didn't say if you picked a fight would you finish it with a double tap, of course that is both morally wrong, and unlawful.


    Actually I am sure that according to Alabama State Law I can shoot an unarmed man if they are attacking me. From the Code of Alabama:
    Section 13A-6-20
    Assault in the first degree.
    (a) A person commits the crime of assault in the first degree if:

    (1) With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he causes serious physical injury to any person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument; or

    (2) With intent to disfigure another person seriously and permanently, or to destroy, amputate or disable permanently a member or organ of his body, he causes such an injury to any person; or


    Section 13A-6-21
    Assault in the second degree.
    (a) A person commits the crime of assault in the second degree if the person does any of the following:

    (1) With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he or she causes serious physical injury to any person.

    (2) With intent to cause physical injury to another person, he or she causes physical injury to any person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument.

    Section 13A-3-23
    Use of force in defense of a person.
    (a) A person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he or she may use a degree of force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose. A person may use deadly physical force, and is legally presumed to be justified in using deadly physical force in self-defense or the defense of another person pursuant to subdivision (4), if the person reasonably believes that another person is:

    (1) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force.

    (2) Using or about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling while committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling.

    (3) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping in any degree, assault in the first or second degree, burglary in any degree, robbery in any degree, forcible rape, or forcible sodomy.

    (4) In the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcefully entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is in the process of sabotaging or attempting to sabotage a federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is attempting to remove, or has forcefully removed, a person against his or her will from any dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle when the person has a legal right to be there, and provided that the person using the deadly physical force knows or has reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act is occurring.


    The law in Alabama allows one to defend himself, and others. It states nowhere that a bad guy must be armed. An unlawful attack--is just that---an unlawful attack.


    @ Austin: As an American Citizen and as a Citizen of Alabama I have no "Duty" to retreat from anywhere I am able to legally be. To retreat in the face of unlawful and unabatted rage and hostile actions is nothing less than cowardice. Granted, perhaps there is a time to withdraw, if you know that the situation would be hopeless. (i.e. ten gang bangers vs. me and wify/girlfriend/mistress/kiddies/group of kittens/etc.) But in public, where one has a right to legally be, retreat should rarely be an option. Unlawful acts should be met with lawful force.

  11. #20
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    Hey armyman: As you can see from the replies, there are other forum members who are not "wacko". Certainly would be appreciated if you did not degrade yourself by having to resort to such terms. You have taken my words and instead of appreciating their tone, you have made them sound like all I am doing is counting "punches". If you consider one punch an imminent threat to your life or great bodily injury, have at it--kill the aggressor. If in the course of this "one punch" it appears evident that this aggressor has a lot more in mind and I truly feel a "presumption that my life is threatened", I will act accordingly. You mention that in Alabama assault is cause. Do you have the definition of assault? My understanding of assault, albeit "simple assault", is when you place your hands on someone. Following thru--if I poke you in the chest or just push you, you will kill me and Alabama will back you up. I think, based on other replies that fall on your side and my side that there is a gray area and it is up to you to FULLY appreciate when you TRULY feel threatened--this is a responsibility you have when you are CC and to "knee jerk" with an answer that says you will kill at the drop of a dime is, IMO, not responsible.

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