It Starts With a Punch - Page 4
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Thread: It Starts With a Punch

  1. #31
    If you are not going to protect yourself, don't carry a gun.

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  3. #32
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    How do we get off on the unprovoked assault tangent? Gang initiation, parking lot fiascos, street crime yada, yada?

    That is not what this thread was about. The subject was an argument between two people escalating to deadly force.

    When was the last time you had an argument with a mugger? Trying to persuade him not to mug you? Or a street gang confrontation? Lots of discussion going on there, I'm sure.

    Some of you people need to peek outside that fear-driven fantasy world of yours and get real for cryin' out loud.

  4. #33

    Cool

    Hey Armyman: I also live in Alabama and, from what you have said, a guardhouse lawyer has been advising you. How you interpret the law is not how a judge might interpret it. I saw a phrase in there, "deadly weapon"
    and I don't think a punch would necessarily be defined as a deadly weapon. I am not a martial artist but I do have a black belt.....it holds my holster and gun. I could draw my weapon during an altercation and shoot someone. Any of us can do that. This is where you have to use sound judgement. The decision you make will be one of the most serious of your life. Ever heard, "Act in haste, repent at leisure?" You had better insure you used every avenue open to you to get out of the situation before playing cowboy. The prosecutor will try to find five reasons why you were wrong for every excuse you give for the shooting. If it got down to a life or death situation and you shot someone, so be it. He won't make the same mistake again!

  5. #34
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    Thank you C&L, thank you C&L, thank you C&L. Short, sweet, to the point and right on.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edsworld View Post
    bodily harm! Nobody has the right to harm you! Weapon or no weapon! Never let them hit you! That one punch could kill you. Size of agressor does not matter. When all is said and done you walked away alive.
    Ed you have absolutely ZERO understanding of this issue. If you carry a gun..please do yourself and everyone around you a favor and give it to someone else.

    Weapon or no weapon: Yeah it makes ALL the difference. It has LONG been upheld that a punch is NOT a deadly weapon UNLESS it can be PROVED that the one who punches you is a master of some sort of martial art, or possibly a profesisonal boxer, even then it is EXTREMELY thin that anyone will buy it.

    Size of aggressor does not matter: DISPARITY OF FORCE, what this means in english is DIFFERENCE IN FORCE, in other words...if someone of roughly the same size as you punches you, a reasonable expectation is that you would NOT be justified in using deadly force because there is no significant difference in size, power, age, handicap or disability. ONE CANNOT use deadly force in a fist fight.

    A punch is just that...a simple punch and not IMMINENT DANGER OF DEATH OT GRAVE BODILY HARM. Yes..a beoken nose or fat lip IS bodily harm, but NOT grave bodily harm or one that would reasonably alter your life or inflict crippling injury. For crying out loud...do you really believe the equine excrement you just spread?

    It is also held that you may use EQUAL FORCE IN DEFENSE OF OUR LIFE. A fist is a fist. If you are talking about a weapon...then a knife, a bat, a club ir bludgeon...yes they ARE deadly weapons, and their use against you would justify your use of a weapon. But a punch? Not even a punch by Chuck Norris, who is on the high side of 60 would justify deadly force.

    If you are taking an old fashioned butt whuppin...from one guy about equal to your size...you can't shoot'em. Sorry. If you are taking a SEVERE BEATING THAT COULD RESULT YOUR DEATH OR GRAVE BODILY HARM from a gang or trio of thungs, then you'd certainly be justified in the eyes of the law.

    Let me put it this way...in the situation as described at the beginning of this thread...if you shoot some loud mouth or shoot him after he merely punches you...YOU are going to jail. You WILL be arrested. You WILL be prosecuted. You WILL be guilty of murder and of being STUPID.

    If I were the responding officer in a case as described above, I would have you in cuffs so fast your head would spin. The County Attorney would jam the full power of the law up your tail pipe, and a jury of your peers would hang you in a second.

    A bullet for a punch? That's freakin' insane. I can't believe how many armchair commandos are on here who seem that they can't wait to be able to shoot someone. It is a ***** to live with even if you are 1000000% correct.

  7. #36
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    The Voice of Reason!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman1911 View Post
    Ed you have absolutely ZERO understanding of this issue. If you carry a gun..please do yourself and everyone around you a favor and give it to someone else.

    Weapon or no weapon: Yeah it makes ALL the difference. It has LONG been upheld that a punch is NOT a deadly weapon UNLESS it can be PROVED that the one who punches you is a master of some sort of martial art, or possibly a profesisonal boxer, even then it is EXTREMELY thin that anyone will buy it.

    Size of aggressor does not matter: DISPARITY OF FORCE, what this means in english is DIFFERENCE IN FORCE, in other words...if someone of roughly the same size as you punches you, a reasonable expectation is that you would NOT be justified in using deadly force because there is no significant difference in size, power, age, handicap or disability. ONE CANNOT use deadly force in a fist fight.

    A punch is just that...a simple punch and not IMMINENT DANGER OF DEATH OT GRAVE BODILY HARM. Yes..a beoken nose or fat lip IS bodily harm, but NOT grave bodily harm or one that would reasonably alter your life or inflict crippling injury. For crying out loud...do you really believe the equine excrement you just spread?

    It is also held that you may use EQUAL FORCE IN DEFENSE OF OUR LIFE. A fist is a fist. If you are talking about a weapon...then a knife, a bat, a club ir bludgeon...yes they ARE deadly weapons, and their use against you would justify your use of a weapon. But a punch? Not even a punch by Chuck Norris, who is on the high side of 60 would justify deadly force.

    If you are taking an old fashioned butt whuppin...from one guy about equal to your size...you can't shoot'em. Sorry. If you are taking a SEVERE BEATING THAT COULD RESULT YOUR DEATH OR GRAVE BODILY HARM from a gang or trio of thungs, then you'd certainly be justified in the eyes of the law.

    Let me put it this way...in the situation as described at the beginning of this thread...if you shoot some loud mouth or shoot him after he merely punches you...YOU are going to jail. You WILL be arrested. You WILL be prosecuted. You WILL be guilty of murder and of being STUPID.

    If I were the responding officer in a case as described above, I would have you in cuffs so fast your head would spin. The County Attorney would jam the full power of the law up your tail pipe, and a jury of your peers would hang you in a second.

    A bullet for a punch? That's freakin' insane. I can't believe how many armchair commandos are on here who seem that they can't wait to be able to shoot someone. It is a ***** to live with even if you are 1000000% correct.
    How refreshing. Thank you snowman. Thank you from the bottom of my long-suffering heart on here!!

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    How refreshing. Thank you snowman. Thank you from the bottom of my long-suffering heart on here!!
    Yeah thanks for the words Cocked_And_Locked...that got my goat a bit. I still can't fathom the misinformation and half-anecdotal viral statements are out there re: lethal force. It's like the old "If you shoot 'em outside, drag 'em inside" fallacy. Hell with modern forensics, you'd be hung like a dead tuna.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe ANYONE should be a victim. I abslolutely believe in the right to defend yourself and your loved ones. That is an absolute. Never be a victim. However...two guys coming together at a moment in time, both showing their respective asses and duking it out because both of them lacked the ability to get along like adults don't make a victim-vs-attacker situation. It makes a jackass versus jackass situation.

    Look at this from a common sense point of view.

    I am in a bar/restaraunt...you pick it. I am eating with my date. Mouthy goober starts his guff. I choose to show how funny or tough I am by playing street lawyer, and really get him going, thereby ESCALATING the conflict. Now mouthy goober tosses a fist. I, being just as much of a goober deice, I am such a man's man that by golly no one is going to punch me, and I shoot him.

    The WORST case in the first part of the above story line is you get a fat lip. Cops come, arrest goober for tossing the punch. Your lips heals in sort order, no one is dead, no one is really hurt. NO...you're not hurt...you gottums a widdle bump. Live with it...kids get worse bumps falling on their butts.

    Okay, instaed of letting the cops handle it...you get into fisticuffs. Honestly...most guys really don't know how to fight. They may know how to tussle...but a real serious knock down drag out fight...yeah, not so much. You're gonna push and shove, and insult one another's momma..out of a BUNCH of thrown punches maybe one or two connect, and probably badly because as I said...MOST guys don't really know how to fight. Pride is pricked..maybe a bloody nose. No one is really hurt...you gottums a widdle bump.

    Be a freakin' man, and not some little wheenbag who is carrying his gun so NOBODY CAN **** WITH ME. Givest thou unto me a break.

    Okay..so now, you have shot the guy who HAD NO WEAPON other than a loud mouth and in all probablity a lousy punch. He's dead. What now? Is your pride elevated becasue you John Wayned some jackass into the grave for being a jerk?

    What could you have done to AVOID letting it get to that stage. You could have just rolled your eyes and kept on with your conversation. Give him nowhere to go. Don't prostelityze about "I can defend myself, and I can blah blah blah....." Let it go. YOU are now escalating it. He will wind up dead because YOU were an isecure little boy who wasn't going to be EMBARRASSED in front of the girl. Yes EMBARRASSED, not VICTIMIZED. You were half of a pipssing contest, and although someone is now dead, and boy oh boy, you won the gun fight...you just lost the fight for the rest of your life. You know the one..where you are in prison with NO gun and much bigger, much badder, and much more violent REAL ATTACKERS are making you their date and you are tossing their salad. Why? Because you were convicted of being stupid.

    You were a victim of nothing more than a LOUD MOUTH. You weren't attacked in a viscious manner with imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm. Even if you take a punch, you gottums a widdle bump. Crying out freaking loud.

    You know after TWENTY TWO years as a cop...the worst punch I EVER took was still one I took years before on the school yard when I was NINE years old. Dealing with drunks, dope dealers, crack heads, even working the warrant squad...I was never HURT or INJURED by a punch. Heck...my DOG has thumped me worse rough housing in the yard with her big block head than a punch even from a BIG feller has.

    Come on get real. A punch never deserves a bullet. You better stop thinking your gun makes your pecker longer or makes you a few inches taller, otherwise I see a very dim future for you. If you run your mouth also and get into a scuffle...you CANNOT claim self defense, you were JUST as responsible as the jerk who ran his mouth too.

    Nowhere in the post did the guy mention ANYTHING about ANYONE having a weapon other than the one he was going to use to shoot the loudmouth.

    UGH.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    How do we get off on the unprovoked assault tangent? Gang initiation, parking lot fiascos, street crime yada, yada?

    That is not what this thread was about. The subject was an argument between two people escalating to deadly force.

    When was the last time you had an argument with a mugger? Trying to persuade him not to mug you? Or a street gang confrontation? Lots of discussion going on there, I'm sure.

    Some of you people need to peek outside that fear-driven fantasy world of yours and get real for cryin' out loud.
    Can I GET a witness? Well said.

  10. #39

    Thumbs up

    Gee - common sense! What a concept.....
    "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail." Benjamin Franklin

  11. One option, before the verbal escalation takes place, is to call for the manager and ask him/her if this is the way he/she allows his/her patrons to be treated.

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