It Starts With a Punch
Page 1 of 14 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 131

Thread: It Starts With a Punch

  1. #1

    It Starts With a Punch

    I know there a tons of "What if's" but I have one thing that still lurks in my mind.

    We all know that there are situations which clearly warrent deadly physical force. Someone breaking into your home, someone trying to carjack you, someone trying to rob you, etc.

    What about the simple argument that turns into a punch?

    I am assuming that as the law abiding citizen we aren't going to be the ones to start any kind of a physical altercation. But assuming that someone else takes a small matter and turns it into a big one. What kind of force is allowed by law for someone who throws a punch at you?

    I live in Alabama and I belive that I would be well within my right to shoot a person who threw a punch at me. Maybe it seems unfair, why not just duke it out? But who is to say that by choosing to defend myself with only my hands won't lead to a worse situation, i.e. the perp obtaining my firearm? Or should you draw and order the person to the ground? (I am a firm believer in pulling your firearm only when you are going to use it.)

    Take this example:

    Your at dinner with you friends, wife, girlfriend, mistress () or whom ever. For some reason or another a man verbally insults you, or is extremely rude. You correct him politely, stating you want no trouble and wish to remain in peace. Being in a public place, (in Alabama) you have NO duty to retreat.

    The guy won't back down, he is determined to piss you off further, and cause a ruckus. You politely remind him that you are here merely to enjoy your meal. You don't instigate at all, but merely inform the person of your right to be there, maybe you throw in that you have the right to defend yourself should unlawful force be used against you. He doesn't buy your attempt to play the street lawyer and he finally has enough and throws a punch.

    Either way, being hit (assuming your not knocked out), or if you dodge. Would you be within your legal right to put two in his chest one in his head? You can't let him just beat you to a pulp, but you don't want to resort to pulling your firearm before things are clearly on your side of the law. In Alabama I believe that one would be in total accordance with the Code of Alabama to defend yourself using deadly physical force. It might not look too great, but I think you would have legal standing. Shooting an unarmed man seems lowly and bully like. But if he is the aggessor then his blood be upon his own head.

    There are lots of different options but some things are just unacceptable. Leaving a public place, where you have every legal right to be, because of some low life--unacceptable.

    Not every perp is a gun toting, ski mask clad monster in a dark ally in the middle of the night. Knowing when to shoot is part of knowing how to shoot. Thoughts?

  2.   
  3. #2
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by armyman_83 View Post
    I know there a tons of "What if's" but I have one thing that still lurks in my mind.

    We all know that there are situations which clearly warrent deadly physical force. Someone breaking into your home, someone trying to carjack you, someone trying to rob you, etc.

    What about the simple argument that turns into a punch?

    I am assuming that as the law abiding citizen we aren't going to be the ones to start any kind of a physical altercation. But assuming that someone else takes a small matter and turns it into a big one. What kind of force is allowed by law for someone who throws a punch at you?

    I live in Alabama and I belive that I would be well within my right to shoot a person who threw a punch at me. Maybe it seems unfair, why not just duke it out? But who is to say that by choosing to defend myself with only my hands won't lead to a worse situation, i.e. the perp obtaining my firearm? Or should you draw and order the person to the ground? (I am a firm believer in pulling your firearm only when you are going to use it.)

    Take this example:

    Your at dinner with you friends, wife, girlfriend, mistress () or whom ever. For some reason or another a man verbally insults you, or is extremely rude. You correct him politely, stating you want no trouble and wish to remain in peace. Being in a public place, (in Alabama) you have NO duty to retreat.

    The guy won't back down, he is determined to piss you off further, and cause a ruckus. You politely remind him that you are here merely to enjoy your meal. You don't instigate at all, but merely inform the person of your right to be there, maybe you throw in that you have the right to defend yourself should unlawful force be used against you. He doesn't buy your attempt to play the street lawyer and he finally has enough and throws a punch.

    Either way, being hit (assuming your not knocked out), or if you dodge. Would you be within your legal right to put two in his chest one in his head? You can't let him just beat you to a pulp, but you don't want to resort to pulling your firearm before things are clearly on your side of the law. In Alabama I believe that one would be in total accordance with the Code of Alabama to defend yourself using deadly physical force. It might not look too great, but I think you would have legal standing. Shooting an unarmed man seems lowly and bully like. But if he is the aggessor then his blood be upon his own head.

    There are lots of different options but some things are just unacceptable. Leaving a public place, where you have every legal right to be, because of some low life--unacceptable.

    Not every perp is a gun toting, ski mask clad monster in a dark ally in the middle of the night. Knowing when to shoot is part of knowing how to shoot. Thoughts?
    Good question. I think there are so many variables in this type of situation, that there is no way to tell.

  4. #3
    Yeah, this is a tough one. I know of at least 2 people who have been beat to death. So, even tho I'm a big guy, trained in martial arts, who knows how to defend himself, I'm quite reluctant these days to engage in a "wrassle" match with some numbnuts. Only takes one good punch or kick to the head and you're done.

    What to do?

    Assuming push has come to shove, if I see an opportunity to end it fast with a single strike, I might be tempted. I'm fairly confident that if I can get an optimal punch or kick in, it's over. I might also be tempted to draw my piece. I know some guys think that if the weapon comes out, it gets used. However, I see nothing wrong with pulling your firearm "to the ready". Now, if idiot proceeds to escalate, now's the time...

    Lots of variables. I'm 6'2", 290 lbs. That's gonna work against me, I'm sure, even tho I'm older, assuming Mr. Numbnuts is smaller. Matter of fact, we're schooled in martial arts to know that if you jack somebody and they die, or are seriously injured, you're in trouble. Just like using your piece.

    Hopefully, there'd be witnesses who'd back your story and all that, but even so, it's a tough call.

    I, like you, am not predisposed to tucking tail and leaving. So, in for a penny, in for a pound, I guess. For sure, it's gonna be a legal and financial hassle, unless it's real clearcut. Others will argue that it would be best to swallow your pride and clear out, which is probably the best advice. It'd be hard for me, tho.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    Yeah, this is a tough one. I know of at least 2 people who have been beat to death. So, even tho I'm a big guy, trained in martial arts, who knows how to defend himself, I'm quite reluctant these days to engage in a "wrassle" match with some numbnuts. Only takes one good punch or kick to the head and you're done.

    What to do?

    Assuming push has come to shove, if I see an opportunity to end it fast with a single strike, I might be tempted. I'm fairly confident that if I can get an optimal punch or kick in, it's over. I might also be tempted to draw my piece. I know some guys think that if the weapon comes out, it gets used. However, I see nothing wrong with pulling your firearm "to the ready". Now, if idiot proceeds to escalate, now's the time...

    Lots of variables. I'm 6'2", 290 lbs. That's gonna work against me, I'm sure, even tho I'm older, assuming Mr. Numbnuts is smaller. Matter of fact, we're schooled in martial arts to know that if you jack somebody and they die, or are seriously injured, you're in trouble. Just like using your piece.

    Hopefully, there'd be witnesses who'd back your story and all that, but even so, it's a tough call.

    I, like you, am not predisposed to tucking tail and leaving. So, in for a penny, in for a pound, I guess. For sure, it's gonna be a legal and financial hassle, unless it's real clearcut. Others will argue that it would be best to swallow your pride and clear out, which is probably the best advice. It'd be hard for me, tho.
    Yeah I think the natural reaction would be to come to blows physically. I hope I would act in the right manner, but if I do pull out my weapon I am pretty sure its gonna end in a Mozambique drill on the guy. Hopefully.

    I think your right that it might be a legal and financial hassle, but honestly I would waive my right to a trail by jury (if it even went to court) and would entrust a judge. I think a judge would have a better understanding of the Law, rather than the DA turning it into a "he shot an unarmed man in a brawl" kind of a situation. The sheep called the jury love tears and hate bullies. Doesn't matter if your right, some juries are just stupid.

    I recommend no one turn tail and run, we both agree on that. If its your right to be there--its your right. Screw some pompus thug or some Bad A wanna be.



    @ Handgonnetoter--The main idea is--would you should someone who tried to fist fight you. And attacked you first. Most questions on here seem simple--shoot a robber? (of course) Shoot a guy breaking in (yes). Shoot an armed man attacking you (yes).....but shoot an unarmed non drug induced man attacking you after a verbal upset....

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Carolina USA
    Posts
    1,450
    Ok;
    The 1st thing that comes to mind (in this particular scenario), is NOT to engage this guy in anyway whatsoever; after the initial confrontation. (Remember, it takes TWO to argue or fight.)

    I would report him to management if I were in a resturaunt or store. If in a bar, I ask the barmaid to find security. If on the street, I find a store or place of business and move inside. (Witnesses can be your friend and a deterant)

    I've actually had something similar happen to me on several occassions. Once, while working as head of security in a redneck/biker bar, I had a woman come up to the owners table where I was setting and ask me to dance.

    After the dance, her sig-other came up and started some crap. I remained seated and apologized and told him I didn't realized she was there with anyone (true) and offered to get a pitcher for the table. This didn't work; and he attempted to get closer and in my face. But, my head bouncer and the owners son realized what was happening and before this guy knew what hit him he was out the door.

    I found out later that his girl had come over to me just to piss off this guy because they had been in an argument.

    The point is:
    I did not "run"!
    I just did NOT allow myself to be sucked in; and a BAD situation was averted. (I had a rep for putting billy badasses, who started trouble in the hospital.)

    Another time I was dancing with "MY" girlfriend; when another guy comes at my back with a switchblade. But, the same friend and bouncer tackled him just as he reached the dance floor. (But, I digress.)

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Laurens County, South Carolina
    Posts
    19
    Unfortunately in the world we live in, we have to be aware of these sort of things.

    However - I'll be damned if going to jail is going to stop me from protecting myself against deadly fists of someone bigger than me. I'd much rather be alive and try to defend myself in court than dead on the street.

    The problem with taking the punches and not drawing your weapon - the minute your weapon is revealed, what is stopping the attacker from grabbing it and putting a few in you?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Central N.Car.
    Posts
    534
    A good friend has two different black belts. We were sparring and I asked him if he had ever had to engage anyone. He said that a bit of swallowing of pride or simply walking away had kept him from ever having to. It made me start thinking why I was taking Kung Fu. I was actually just waiting for an excuse to hurt some idiot and that is not the way a Christian is supposed to think. That realization changed my thinking drastically. I have carried most of my life(65 now) and have never fired at anyone as a civilian. As for shooting someone who only had his fists you might be in great legal trouble unless he had registered training. In NC, the CC classes say that you can only use deadly force if your life is in danger. I certainly do not intend on being assaulted by some idiot wanting to show off or needing his testosterone level soothed but my last intention would be to kill him. Death is permanent and if you can I would certainly avoid ending some jerks life over something that could be settled differently. I would not hesitate to fire if life or limb was in danger but again, it is a last option.

  9. #8
    bodily harm! Nobody has the right to harm you! Weapon or no weapon! Never let them hit you! That one punch could kill you. Size of agressor does not matter. When all is said and done you walked away alive.

  10. #9
    Most people don't get "punched" or harrased, unless they have participated in the altercation. As stated above, it takes two to tango. As a CCP holder, you have a higher degree of responsibility than the average joe to avoid these situations if possible.

    I understand you only have but a few seconds to make a decision, but you have think of the consequences. If you shoot an unarmed man, you had better make sure you did everything you could to avoid it. If he survives or has friends with him, you know damn well the story will be greatly different than yours. I image you will be in a heap of trouble unless you handle it correctlly. Even then, you will still probably be sued, detained or even arrested.

    I thought about this before for awhile before I posted this.

    If it was some A-hole who was hell bent on hurting me or had already puncked me, I would try to take these steps and use deadly force as a last resort.
    1.) put as much space as possible between the two of you as the situation will allow.(back up a few steps, put a table in between you...)
    2.) put my hand on my Firearm and announce as loud as I can. I carry a gun and I will use it to defend myself, I don't want trouble.(making sure as many people hear you as possible.
    3.) Yell, "someone call 911 now"
    4.) If the aggressor persists or comes at you, draw your weapon without pointint at him(unless he is charging) and this time yell, I will defend myself if you come any closer. Repeat: Someone call 911.
    5.) Shoot or holster my weapon. (just try not to kill anybody else behind him)

    I wouldn't hesitate to shoot someone to protect myself, but I have to remember that I had better have some creditible witnesses. If you just draw your gun and shoot someone that punches you, I can't see it turning out too well.

    .

  11. Not Just Guns

    Instead of a "lurking question" look at it as an opportunity...to try out alternate approaches. I carry a Kimber .45 just about everywhere I go, but I ALSO have pepper spray, a 1 million volt ZapLight from Cabelas and a knife for everyday utilities. Give yourself more options than just a firearm. Nothing would be funnier than some jerk getting froggy, touching me, and getting sprayed and junk-punched for his trouble. If that doesn't stop an assault I don't know what will, and I would be a veritable "god" among my friends. The zaplight is sweet, the cops here use 50K volts, this is 1 MILLION, and it is a great little rechargeable flashlight as well. I picked one up, and 7 of my friends now have them too. A couple are cops. The cops don't pull people over and either let them go, write a ticket or shoot them, they have multiple levels to escalate to. It would look WAY better in a court if it went to shooting that you tried other means first. I don't know about you, but pepper spray to the face and a shot to the junk would stop me from thinking about further actions! The mere sight of that Zaplight firing off would also be enough to stop any sane person as well.

    Stay safe, keep your options open, and...

    MOLON LABE

Page 1 of 14 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Obama STARTS to Disarm America
    By HK4U in forum Politics and News
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 06-13-2010, 10:08 AM
  2. Elk season starts Saturday
    By elkhuntCO in forum Hunting
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-05-2009, 11:51 AM
  3. What starts with F and ends with K...
    By Sheldon in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-20-2008, 04:35 AM
  4. VA-ALERT: Four part series on guns starts today!
    By xd.40 in forum Virginia Discussion and Firearm News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-03-2008, 08:43 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast