Your Input
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Thread: Your Input

  1. Your Input

    So over the last several years there has been a ton of talk regarding 'modified' or otherwise 'non-stock' additions to primary defense weapons.

    I'm curious if ANYONE can provide case reference as to when this has ever been brought up in criminal/civil trials.

    The 'urban legend' goes: If you modify your weapon the attorneys will tear you apart stating that you were looking for a fight, that you wanted a "more deadly" weapon than you could purchase. That the modification was faulty and you fired "on accident". Etc.

    This same thought process goes on to hand-loaded cartridges, engraved weapons, night sights, laser grips, hogue grips, extended slide stops, extended magazine releases, lighter trigger springs, polished internals, upgraded aftermarket internals, etc. etc. etc. etc.

    So the challenge is: Can anyone provide a factual, recent (75 years) document to show that any of the above mentioned has ever been an issue.

    PS: Please do not quote Massad Ayoob's famous "The prosecutor will ask if you think you know better than the __________ firearm manufacturing company" as that was a cop out answer, and he still provided no reference to when/where/if this has ever been asked.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  2.   
  3. #2
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Attorney, The Law Offices of James M. Mullins, Jr., PLLC
    Founder and Past President, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    TN, the patron state of shootin stuff
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    Not an issue. If the case could be made against you for shooting reloads in self defense then the same issue could be raised that you practiced once a week, that you shot center mass, that you trained at Front Sight, had night sights and on and on. Just an internet myth that keeps making the rounds.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  5. #4
    I agree with BigSlick!! The Internet is a great tool. But also, It puts allot of Bullcrap at our Fingertips. (Rumors, Rumors & More Rumors ???)
    NRA,NYCCW,PALTCF,FLCCW,ARCCW,DCM,NYSRPA,SCOPE

  6. Quote Originally Posted by WVCDL View Post
    That has nothing to do with speaking with the police. Law Enforcement will most certainly take your firearm for evidence, and if they are so inclined to inspect it they will likely see any external modifications. I did watch that video some time back - its a great reference video, although I will say i've read contrary information, well no contrary they advise keeping your mouth shut too, but realistically don't expect you to.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigSlick View Post
    Not an issue. If the case could be made against you for shooting reloads in self defense then the same issue could be raised that you practiced once a week, that you shot center mass, that you trained at Front Sight, had night sights and on and on. Just an internet myth that keeps making the rounds.
    Completely agree.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  7. #6
    Would any of that kind of argument be any different than arguing about using a "more powerful" caliber? (.22 vs 9mm vs .45 vs. .44 mag, and on and on)

    I remember reading about ONE case where a handload caused a problem -- a wife allegedly shot herself using one of her husbands guns that was loaded with a light-recoil practice load, so didn't leave the normal close range powder burn type evidence, and I think it was pretty much all he could do to prove that that's how it happened (not even sure if he was successful).

    IIRC, it was one of the bigger revolver calibers that he had light loads in so he could practice without [beating] his hands up. I know this is all hearsay, I will try to find the correct cite.

    Final Edit:
    Google-fu is weak with me today, I don't remember enough details about it, it was just an article I came across a WHILE ago (I think it was via Mr. Ayoob's writings/site somehow).

    The argument against using a "modified" carry weapon (and by extension, hand-loaded ammunition) is legal wiggle room -- as in not giving the prosecutor any if you can help it. I even found discussion about using "neutrally named" weapons. As in "Don't use a Combat Commander model, use a Gold Cup Match" or something along those lines.
    Last edited by squisher; 11-30-2010 at 11:47 AM. Reason: grammar, mmmkay...
    Taurus PT92
    17+1 9mm

  8. #7
    Join Date
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    The courts today have degenerated to a point where you could file a lawsuit against a ham sandwich. If you are justified in the eyes of the law to use deadly force to defend yourself and you live in a "castle" state once you are cleared you are protected from a civil lawsuit.
    The only downside I can see to using your Gold Cup Match pistol is that you may be relieved of your weapon during the course of the investigation and it could take several months before your pistol would be returned.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  9. #8
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    What would make the difference between a name? The prosecuting attorneys dont give enough of a crap that matters as long as they get paid.

    Suppose i shot someone with a Remington 700 from 5 feet away,because they were coming at me with a chainsaw? Maybe i used a chainsaw to kill someone who was digging into my temple with a spoon,or i used a pen against someone about to kill an innocent hostage?

    The point is,and this ought be able to get past anything,you were in defense of your life.Whether unarmed or with a MAC-10 in each hand,you were stopping a threat.And the prosecuting family took you to court because "You didnt have to kill him/her."

    Does a former comment imply that i could be sued or arrested because i was able to stop a threat with "Un necessary,military grade,offensive night sights" on my TRP? The amount of bs in the legal system has to go.
    I Love Nicki Minaj

  10. Quote Originally Posted by .45 Ben View Post
    What would make the difference between a name? The prosecuting attorneys dont give enough of a crap that matters as long as they get paid.

    Suppose i shot someone with a Remington 700 from 5 feet away,because they were coming at me with a chainsaw? Maybe i used a chainsaw to kill someone who was digging into my temple with a spoon,or i used a pen against someone about to kill an innocent hostage?

    The point is,and this ought be able to get past anything,you were in defense of your life.Whether unarmed or with a MAC-10 in each hand,you were stopping a threat.And the prosecuting family took you to court because "You didnt have to kill him/her."

    Does a former comment imply that i could be sued or arrested because i was able to stop a threat with "Un necessary,military grade,offensive night sights" on my TRP? The amount of bs in the legal system has to go.
    Awesome post!
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  11. #10
    Join Date
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    Location
    Flint, Michigan
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    I have heard these rumors before. Any Jury should not believe any of that bull crap. Truth is, you could base a defense on "I put a pistol grip on my shot gun so i could have better control of it incase some would be robber grabbed the weapon" or lasers to be sure you would hit your target before firing in a public area....
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

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