Using deadly force to protect your pet - Page 5
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Thread: Using deadly force to protect your pet

  1. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Doc: If you want a jury to believe you, you had better have a mindset that very clearly, from minute one, made you believe and presume that you yourself were in imminent danger as your pet was being attacked. The attacking animal had clearly shown an aggressive attitude not only to your pet but to you, as well, and it was a clear presumption on your part that once the animal was "done" with your dog either by killing it or having you separate them, it was going to attack you. Just like with the two legged "dogs" running around, the key is "presumption of imminent death or great bodily injury" that will allow you to discharge your firearm in defense. Here in SC, case law has bent over backwards to protect the CCer when presumption is there.
    I had two points in my message and I think you addressed both. For Clarity:

    1. "Deadly force" laws normally only apply to human attackers. There are different laws that apply to animal attacks.

    2. Your own feelings can contribute to your arguement for the justification of of the use of deadly force but are not the standard. What matters is if a reasonable person in your place would have acted similarly.

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Mustang View Post
    I had two points in my message and I think you addressed both. For Clarity:

    1. "Deadly force" laws normally only apply to human attackers. There are different laws that apply to animal attacks.

    2. Your own feelings can contribute to your arguement for the justification of of the use of deadly force but are not the standard. What matters is if a reasonable person in your place would have acted similarly.
    You are correct about the laws for attacks on and by animals and on and by people vary and vary greatly from state to state. Not only that but the kind of animal matters also therefore we can't make any blanket statement. Your comment about a reasonable person is right on the money as many cases are just that when it is turned over to the jury. What would a reasonable person have done in this case.

    As some have pointed out that in some states dogs are considered property just like your automobile. If you saw a car rolling down the hill toward your car would you have the right to shoot out the tires on it to prevent it from hitting your car? I know this is a wild comparision but both are property so we can make some comparision. But no matter whether it is an animar or person the key is normally what would a reasonable person do in the same situation.

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by chiefpropellerhead View Post
    Here in Charleston South Carolina there was a news report this week of a pit bull that was roaming a neighborhood in West Ashley and attacking other dogs. One lady watched as the Pit Bull tore in to her weiner dog and killed it. The pit bull came out of the woods and attacked the dog with no cause. Then later on that afternoon the pit bull showed up in a park not too far away and did the same thing to another dog.

    The thought running through my mind was this. If that pit bull had attacked my dog for no apparent reason other than to be vicious I would have put an end to that problem very quickly. The next thought was a question that I would like to pose to you. If I use deadly force to stop a vicious animal from tearing into my pet will I go to jail for discharging my firearm in public?

    Yes, I know I need to research the local laws here. I would imagine that the City of Charleston does have ordinances against discharging a firearm in the city limits. Any pet owner that is a CWP holder and carrying concealed would certainly be tempted to protect their pet.

    I had a friend of mine, who was working private security many years ago, that got mauled by a pit bull at an apartment complex. He was walking by a gate at the back of an apartment and the dog broke its chain and jumped the fence and attacked him. My friend was armed but it happened so quick he was not able, or decided not to use deadly force. I am thinking that I would have fed the dog the business end of his .357 and pulled the trigger.
    Here in Ohio you cant kill a dog thats attacking your dog.
    You can kill a dog who is making you think he's going to bite you, however.
    Lawriter - ORC - 955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts - owner liable for damages.
    I dont think too much trouble is going to come if you put down an out of control pit bull. No big loss there.

  5. #44
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    Hey Doc and FN: We are playing with words here. If I have an imminent danger to myself, it is damn well certain that it is a reasonable presumption of imminent danger of great bodily harm. They, IMO, are one and the same. That goes for any animal, 2 legged or 4 legged. Some replies, however, do meet your distinction on "reasonable" with their guns ablazing attitude about anything running toward them.

  6. #45
    We have a huge problem in our subdivision here in Georgia and we live outside the city limits. Our 2 dogs (a 1 yr old femail Corgi and 7 yr old male Chihuahua) are on radio collars and cant leave the yard without getting a beep followed by a zap. The rest of the neighbors let their dogs run free, or did. On 2 separate occasions we have watched in horror as our Chihuahua tried to "defend" the Corgi from one of the neighbors Labs who gets loose constantly. We have warned them in the past to deal with it. One night we took my daughter to karate, came back 90 mins later to find the Chihuahua had been attacked by a larger dog and it had crushed his skull with sufficient force to pop his right eye out of socket. A trip to the emergency vet and $1000 later he now has no right eye and has that eyelid sewn shut forever. We called the sheriff and animal control and the sheriff basically said not my department. Animal control did a rabies shot check of all the neighbors dogs to make sure they were in compliance.

    Here is where the fun starts.

    We wanted to know what we could do. The simple answer is this. If a dog trespasses in our yard and since we don't know what dog attacked ours, we can shoot it if we think its a threat. We were told this by both the sheriff and animal control. They said no charges would be filed, because in Georgia we have a leash law that our county has adopted.

    If a dog is in your yard, not on a leash and under control of its master its abandoned, if its aggressive you are allowed to use any means not cruel to kill it. You may not hurt it, in any way though. You may not use a stick, a paint ball gun, mace or any other method or you risk being charged with animal cruelty.

    So kill it or let it ravage your pets is how it goes here.

  7. #46
    If a dog is in your yard, not on a leash and under control of its master its abandoned
    That is an interesting concept and one that I like. Is this a local law or just an interpretation? I wonder how it applies to other localities and if it is a legal definition that applies everywhere. Does anyone have more on this as it could be used in lots of instances where dogs are running loose.

  8. #47
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    I disagree with you rahl. An imminent threat to my life by 2 legs or 4 legs requires my reasonable defense with whatever I have at my disposal. We are not talking about animal cruelty, we are talking about my self defense. Put any words you want to it--reasonable/imminent danger--whatever---animal cruelty is not part of the equation in this discussion and self defense of same is the preeminent consideration at any level of the legal system.

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    I disagree with you rahl. An imminent threat to my life by 2 legs or 4 legs requires my reasonable defense with whatever I have at my disposal. We are not talking about animal cruelty, we are talking about my self defense. Put any words you want to it--reasonable/imminent danger--whatever---animal cruelty is not part of the equation in this discussion and self defense of same is the preeminent consideration at any level of the legal system.
    All I can tell you is what both LEO told me, and thats either kill it because youre afraid of it or leave it alone and call them. If I call them they only work 4 days a week and with 3 Animal Control officers for our county you can expect for them to not get there timely.

  10. #49
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    Honest to God...

    The ensuing conversation would start something like this..."Honest to God Officer, the pit bull was headed right for me, I feared for my life. My Weiner dog jumped in before I could get the first round off."

    Pit bull, bulldog, Sheppard, collie any dog you can't out run can cause fatal wounds, not to mention the infection of a non-fatal wound. If the first scream at the dog doesn't send it packing and it continues to approach, drop it in it's tracks.

    Okay, now comes the gnashing of teeth from the dog lovers!

  11. #50
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    I'm a DOG LOVER and would not hesitate to drop someones dog charging me or my wife. Dam near had to bust a round on a Pitt mix at the Dog Park a couple months ago until the owner finally pulled him off my dog. (This was after I threw his dog off twice from the top of mine) I think he saw my 1911 in my shoulder holster the last time and was sure I was about to POP his canine if he didn't step in. He would have been right to!
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

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