Recent shooting justified?
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Thread: Recent shooting justified?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Northeast Kentucky
    Posts
    20

    Recent shooting justified?

    This occurred yesterday at a Walmart in Logan WV. A male approached another subject with a sharp object in his hand demanding his money, subject reportedly had the guy by the neck and made several threats to cut the guys throat. The guy handed over his wallet and the subject was walking away. Guy who has a WV CDP permit pulls his gun and shoots killing subject. Guy is arrested for murder and law enforcement is leaving it up to the prosecutors to figure it out.

    Granted not many of us are lawyers and I'm not very familiar with WV laws. But what is your opinion justified or not?

    http://www.wsaz.com/mobi/breaking?storyid=128205923

  2.   
  3. That will depend on WV law. My guess is if the BG was running away with his wallet then the ccw(in the laws eyes, not mine) was not justified. Now if he fought with the BG while the knife was on his throat, and shot him, I imagine that be in Self Defense. Rarely does anyone whom shoots another in the Back get off on Self Defense. I pray if they do prosecute, the ccw gets at the most, Excusable Homicide.

  4. #3
    Doesnt sound justified. Dude was walking away.

    BUT.... The perp now has the victoms wallet and ID and will know where he lives.

    If I were on the jury, I would not go hard on the victom.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    159
    It sounds like he made a poor decision with shooting the man in the back. Maybe he could have alerted store employees or called 911 himself and then use the weapon to detain the man until the police got there. Were there witnesses to the fact that the man put a knife to his neck? This could be one of those cases where having a non lethal weapon available to take the person down until the police arrive would be handy. Shooting someone in the back is never a good option. He will probably spend some time in jail and lose his permit.

  6. #5
    Agree, it would depend on WV law. I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. In my opinion this is, based upon data provided so far, not a justified use of deadly force. In Florida, where I live, the use of deadly force is only justified if you have an immediate fear for your life (expanded castle doctrine defines a break-in while you are home as immediate fear). If the BG was going away and no longer an immediate threat than the shooting would not meet the requirements as I understand them for justifiable use of deadly force. Were he to have turned around and approached the victim again in a threatening manner, however, I believe it would.

    This is an example of those of us that are CCW licensed need to be well educated as to the legalities as we will be held to a very high standard. Errors on our part will be magnified by the gun right opposition in the media and used to further restrict the rights of the law abiding citizens legally protecting ourselves.

  7. If the video backs up the witness statements, this shooting was not justified. Even though he was robbed, the attacker had turned and walked away and the danger was over. The CCW then drew and shot the attacker in the back of the head. Not Justified and is murder.

    If he had defended himself while the attacker had the "SHARP OBJECT" to his neck from behind while the attacker was screaming "GIVE YOUR WALLET OR I AM GOING TO CUT YOUR THROAT" it would be a totally different story.

    These incidents will continue until WV requires more that just a safety class to obtain a CCW permit. Most people refuse to self-educate themselves on the CCW laws. WV does not require them to be trained on the laws, only a safety class.

    In my training classes I distribute a copy of the State published gun laws and a current copy of USA's permit requirements page. After the class, for free, I offer to discuss the laws and it would shock you to see the number of people that say "if it is not required, I am not staying".

    Emotions and lack of knowledge will send this man to prison.

    Sad for all involved and for all permit holders.

  8. You are right on track my friend.

  9. CORRECT and right on track.
    Quote Originally Posted by tbrazzale View Post
    Agree, it would depend on WV law. I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. In my opinion this is, based upon data provided so far, not a justified use of deadly force. In Florida, where I live, the use of deadly force is only justified if you have an immediate fear for your life (expanded castle doctrine defines a break-in while you are home as immediate fear). If the BG was going away and no longer an immediate threat than the shooting would not meet the requirements as I understand them for justifiable use of deadly force. Were he to have turned around and approached the victim again in a threatening manner, however, I believe it would.

    This is an example of those of us that are CCW licensed need to be well educated as to the legalities as we will be held to a very high standard. Errors on our part will be magnified by the gun right opposition in the media and used to further restrict the rights of the law abiding citizens legally protecting ourselves.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    211
    Could go either way. There have been a couple of shootings in Omaha where bullets went through the back and the shooter was not arrested, let alone charged. Under our laws, we have to be able to "annunciate" why be believed that we were in fear of death or bodily harm. In the case of an armed fleeing felon, there is nothing to guarantee that he will not turn and shoot before he leaves. It has happened (although this guy was armed with a knife). The fact that he now has your address and personal data and has already had one violent encounter with you could be another factor. I do not know how it is in that particular jurisdiction, but in some people are just sick and tired of crime. Technically, the shooter is wrong. However, it would not surprise me if he was not prosecuted, or if a jury returned a not guilty verdict if he was. I am glad I am not in his position, but I wish I was on his jury.

  11. (IANAL) If he had shot while the guy was approaching, justified. Because he shot after the immediate danger was over (the perp had his 'prize' and was leaving,) completely unjustified.

    Will the vast majority of the population miss the perp? No. But it wasn't justified, either.

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