Citizens Arrest?

[caldwelljoe]

All of which is going to happen if you shoot! He was such a good little boy.

The relatives of the deceased will say:

"Oh yeah Judge, just the day before he committed those two rapes in the alley, and that armed robbery, he was turning his life around. Don't ya know. We demand financial satisfaction for the life of our dear departed relative." He died so young", they will say.

The meatballs on juries today, might actually "find for the plaintive". Hey, wait a minute. We are those meatballs, are we not?

[Boomboy007]

As far as "brandishing" goes here in FL, it depends on the circumstances. My neighbor's 3 dogs got loose and tried to attack me a few months ago. I was outside and my immediate reaction to 3 dogs running at me growling was to draw my pistol. I drew it and walked backwards into my door with it aimed at them, then closed the door. My neighbor saw this and called the police, who showed up and then called Animal Control and took his dogs. They took the liberty to inform me I did the right thing however next time I need to draw my weapon, to immediately call them when a free moment is reached.

I think that it was Ayoob that described the "race for the phone" drill. In essence, the first thing that you should do after utilizing your firearm to stop a threat, whether you fired a shot or not, is to call the police. This means immediately. It does not matter if you fired or simply "brandished" the gun; it does not matter if the BG actually assaulted or merely threatened; it does not matter if there were no witnesses or there were thirty witnesses; if you pull your gun out of its holster (or even display it in its holster in a state with no OC), then you need to call the police.

Let's look at an example:

You are walking late at night through a park with your dog (you worked late, and in the winter it gets dark early). You are approached by a man waving a knife saying "Give me your wallet or I am going to cut you!". You pull out Dieter (what, am I the only one who named his piece?) and let the BG look through all four inches of the barrel. You hear a sound similar to "Eeep!" and the BG runs away. You feel good because you did not let yourself be a victim, your dog feels good because he found a "good spot", and you didn't have to hurt anybody. Maybe that guy will give up his evil ways and get an honest job.

On the way out of the park you hear tires scream as two police cruisers screech to a halt. Four police officers jump out of their vehicles with weapons drawn and start yelling. Being compliant, you put your hands in the air. Now off-leash, your dog heads toward one of the officrs, tongue lolling and tail wagging. The officer dispatches him with two shots to the head. You discover that a felony takedown hurts even worse than it appears on television.

While you are standing, cuffed, beside a police cruiser, you notice another cruiser roll slowly by. Inside you see the BG crying, looking at you, and you see him say "That's the guy." Now mister BG has no knife, and you are a criminal who tried to accost/mug/shoot this innocent fellow. You become a felon (no more shooting of any kind for YOU), spend three years in prison, and come home to an empty home (the wife "met someone" while you were away), no job (they don't hire felons), and no dog. Somehow the dog hurts the worst. Oh well, at least you are still alive. Defenseless against the next attack, but alive.


If you had bothered to call the cops (what do you mean you carry a handgun, a BUG, three spare magazines, but no cell phone?) they would know that there was a BG with a knife matching the description that you give, and when he tries to make his call they know right where to find him. Now you are a hero, your dog is alive, your wife still leaves you (if she would leave you while you were locked up unfairly then she was not a good partner anyway), you meet a supermodel at the dog park who loves the way your belly gently laps over your belt, and all is right with the world.


As important as draw speed is, so too is speed dial.

[rrc1962]

Here in TN, you have no "power of police" with a HCP. I'm only authorized to draw if my life is in imminent danger. Under no circumstances can I (nor would I want to) detain someone. I'll leave it at that.

That's also the way I understand it (here in TN) and I don't think it's right. Consider this. You come up on a murder scene after the deed is done, but the BG is still there. The BG never points a gun or knife at you and makes no threatening moves toward you and thus your life is not in immediate danger. Under the law, you have no right to brandish a weapon or detain the BG in any way. You could have drawn and fired to protect the victim if you had been there 2 minutes sooner.

Now the cops show up and you have to tell tell them that you were there minutes after it happened, you saw the BG with the murder weapon but because you were not threatened directly and because firing to protect the already dead victim probably wouldn't go over, you had to sit there with your loaded firearm holstered as you you watched the BG stroll away.

Now let the news people get a hold of that story. Once they find out you were legally armed and let the BG walk away, they will make you out to be a complete spineless tool. Personally, I don't think this would be a bad thing because it would give you and every gun supporter the chance to prove that the law does not protect the average citizen. The average citizen needs to understand that even though I have the tools and training to take down a perp on their behalf, the law prohibits me from doing so.

[rrc1962]

Let's look at an example:

You are walking late at night through a park with your dog (you worked late, and in the winter it gets dark early). You are approached by a man waving a knife saying "Give me your wallet or I am going to cut you!". You pull out Dieter (what, am I the only one who named his piece?) and let the BG look through all four inches of the barrel. You hear a sound similar to "Eeep!" and the BG runs away. You feel good because you did not let yourself be a victim, your dog feels good because he found a "good spot", and you didn't have to hurt anybody. Maybe that guy will give up his evil ways and get an honest job.

On the way out of the park you hear tires scream as two police cruisers screech to a halt. Four police officers jump out of their vehicles with weapons drawn and start yelling. Being compliant, you put your hands in the air. Now off-leash, your dog heads toward one of the officrs, tongue lolling and tail wagging. The officer dispatches him with two shots to the head. You discover that a felony takedown hurts even worse than it appears on television.

Take this in a slightly different direction. Instead of exiting the park and finding the cops coming after you, they are taking down the same BG who is now standing beside the family of 4 he just murdered for their wallets. The phone call probably would have prevented that. Definitely make the call. No cop would run you in for brandishing a weapon and calling to report it. In a perfect world, we should be allowed by law to detain an unarmed BG until the cops get there.

[wolfhunter]

Let's look at an example:

You are walking late at night through a park with your dog (you worked late, and in the winter it gets dark early). You are approached by a man waving a knife saying "Give me your wallet or I am going to cut you!". You pull out Dieter (what, am I the only one who named his piece?) and let the BG look through all four inches of the barrel. You hear a sound similar to "Eeep!" and the BG runs away. You feel good because you did not let yourself be a victim, your dog feels good because he found a "good spot", and you didn't have to hurt anybody. Maybe that guy will give up his evil ways and get an honest job.

On the way out of the park you hear tires scream as two police cruisers screech to a halt. Four police officers jump out of their vehicles with weapons drawn and start yelling. Being compliant, you put your hands in the air. Now off-leash, your dog heads toward one of the officrs, tongue lolling and tail wagging. The officer dispatches him with two shots to the head. You discover that a felony takedown hurts even worse than it appears on television.

While you are standing, cuffed, beside a police cruiser, you notice another cruiser roll slowly by. Inside you see the BG crying, looking at you, and you see him say "That's the guy." Now mister BG has no knife, and you are a criminal who tried to accost/mug/shoot this innocent fellow. You become a felon (no more shooting of any kind for YOU), spend three years in prison, and come home to an empty home (the wife "met someone" while you were away), no job (they don't hire felons), and no dog. Somehow the dog hurts the worst. Oh well, at least you are still alive. Defenseless against the next attack, but alive.


If you had bothered to call the cops (what do you mean you carry a handgun, a BUG, three spare magazines, but no cell phone?) they would know that there was a BG with a knife matching the description that you give, and when he tries to make his call they know right where to find him. Now you are a hero, your dog is alive, your wife still leaves you (if she would leave you while you were locked up unfairly then she was not a good partner anyway), you meet a supermodel at the dog park who loves the way your belly gently laps over your belt, and all is right with the world.


As important as draw speed is, so too is speed dial.

A supermodel loves the way your belly gently laps over your belt? Sounds like the same kind of fantasy world where gun control actually prevents crime. But, this a good illustration. Notify the police anytime we need to draw a weapon.

[wolfhunter]

That's also the way I understand it (here in TN) and I don't think it's right. Consider this. You come up on a murder scene after the deed is done, but the BG is still there. The BG never points a gun or knife at you and makes no threatening moves toward you and thus your life is not in immediate danger. Under the law, you have no right to brandish a weapon or detain the BG in any way. You could have drawn and fired to protect the victim if you had been there 2 minutes sooner.

Now the cops show up and you have to tell tell them that you were there minutes after it happened, you saw the BG with the murder weapon but because you were not threatened directly and because firing to protect the already dead victim probably wouldn't go over, you had to sit there with your loaded firearm holstered as you you watched the BG stroll away.

Now let the news people get a hold of that story. Once they find out you were legally armed and let the BG walk away, they will make you out to be a complete spineless tool. Personally, I don't think this would be a bad thing because it would give you and every gun supporter the chance to prove that the law does not protect the average citizen. The average citizen needs to understand that even though I have the tools and training to take down a perp on their behalf, the law prohibits me from doing so.

Until you can check for pulses, they aren't dead, they are live victims and you draw your weapon to keep the BG from further torturing them.

[rrc1962]

Until you can check for pulses, they aren't dead, they are live victims and you draw your weapon to keep the BG from further torturing them.

I think you'd catch less flack for shooting him than detaining him.

[Canis-Lupus]

Boomboy007,
U paint an all too real "no good deed goes unpunished" scenario that I sure can relate to. Basic packing 101, never leave home packing just a gun, permit and good intentions, a cell phone is a must, 911 the minute U have drawn and got things the way you want them, not how the BG will paint you as some gun-crazed vigilante who he/she swears was trying to rob them occifer!
Good post M8.

Canis-Lupus

[wolfhunter]

I think you'd catch less flack for shooting him than detaining him.

Besides, if the BG is shot, there will only be one version for the police to hear.

[Boomboy007]

A supermodel loves the way your belly gently laps over your belt? Sounds like the same kind of fantasy world where gun control actually prevents crime. But, this a good illustration. Notify the police anytime we need to draw a weapon.

Hope does spring eternal!!!