How Cooperative with a LEO is wise?
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Thread: How Cooperative with a LEO is wise?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Inland Empire
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    394

    Question How Cooperative with a LEO is wise?

    I ask this as general advise, knowing each state and situation has it own laws and every situation is different, so I am NOT looking for more than general advice from someone who has lived thru this, is a CCW trainer/expert or been the arresting officer.
    OK, U have had to use your weapon in some form from drawing it, to pointing it at someone who is hell-bent of messing you up for no reason you provoked, to discharging it at that attacker as a very last resort. Or that person has already gained entry to your home or car and you now fear for your life big time. You are sober and hopefully you are the armed citizen who made the (recorded) 911 call for help, which may arrive in 2 or 20 minutes. The cops show up and your brain kicks into DEFCON -1. Shut up, say nothing and plead the 5th. So you state you would like a lawyer present and decline to make any statements (even if a few vital ones could cear you if others agree that is what happened) when they get to the part about: "Do you have anything to say?" If your answer is still a firm "No!" you WILL get you wish after they MIRANDA you, arrest you and take you cuffed to the local cop-shop, maybe leaving your nice car (non-driving spouse or kid or dog left to watch you get hauled away) on the side of a road somewhere. As Landor points out in an excellent blog he made (What every CCW should know and think about.) that bears a read if you have a gun. Per his advice it is good proactive thinking to already have the contact number of the best weapons defense lawyer in town B 4 you even think about walking around packing, in your billfold, or in your head. Someone who you have at least met with once and given him/her your take on being and staying lawful, your personal data, access to arrange bail for you, how to access those funds, calls to your loved ones to take care of your home/pet or job, and ALL the things a PD may/or may not do for you by day 2 into police custody. Also a PD may be a very busy person who gives you tops a 15 minute window of your side of the story, knows only as much about you as is on file and may not know as much as a specialized weapons defense lawyer does when it comes to federal, state, county or city laws he or she may be kinda rusty on about guns, or considers police reports and witness reports 'the facts' B 4 they ever get to your statement. "He said, she said" type of grilling that is almost guaranteed to flummox you. :oooh:
    In your estimation, and I would love to get advice from someone who gives me something a lot better than a 1-liner no-help post, don't even bother if that's your level of answering a question you may need the answer to one day in terms better than "You'll figure it out buddy!" (save it!) This type of question IMHO rates a few comments from someone who knows laws not bar-room gags. Is there ever a time or a good reason to provide any details to the 1st senior law enforcement officer on the scene, while your gun is still smoking, the BG is nursing a bullet hole, BUT everything is still very fresh in your mind. The BG if still alive does not have the chance to get some M8's who 'saw the whole thing go down' :hilarious: and will swear you were the BG and their M8 the victim. In those first few moments the witnesses are still there to provide statements still fresh in their minds, but won't be for long, not off on vacation or scattered to the winds to avoid/miss your court date when it rolls around. It's not 3 months later in a court-room, that you and those on your side try to recreate but have forgotten what the BG, or you was even wearing or what day it happened on (oops!), etc., to back up a truly lawful action you chose to take in the absence of any help, looking at impending injury or death that helps you in any way, or damns you for making a statement you can not retract once it's logged into record, and if so, at what point of the many questions the cops are sure to ask you @ the scene would you decline to say another word the day that incident went down? I do consider this a legitimate question that may help many others if they find themselves in this situation. I do not ask for precise legal counsel, but a qualified take by someone with sound advice would be a great help, not in maybe 2 years after I get out of some jail for being my own worst witness.
    My regards to any USA Carry patron who wants to provide me (and everyone who views this thread) some words of good advice that may one day make the difference between being released pending a court case on my own recognizance, or sweating it out in a jail cell with less than great folks as company for much longer than you wanted. :icon_bitterbal:
    I look forward to some helpful feed-back,

    Canis-Lupus :y:
    Last edited by Canis-Lupus; 06-12-2008 at 05:16 AM.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
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    Exclamation Here is some sage advice

    Shooting Aftermath

    This article covers the topic you have started. It has some good advice.
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  4. #3
    Quick one liner look at our history logs and see we did not fall of the turnip truck today.

  5. #4
    Join Date
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    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    3,098

    Exclamation You Are Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwo51 View Post
    Quick one liner look at our history logs and see we did not fall of the turnip truck today.
    This is similar to a thread from a couple of months ago. C/L brought it up again and I posted the same link as last time again. It is good information and maybe something a newbie might need.
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
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    3,098

    Exclamation there are 3 sides to every story

    When an event like this goes to court, there are 3 sides t every story.
    1. The plaintiffs side
    2. Th defendants side
    3. The Police report.

    IMHO I would only offer the following information:

    Name,
    Address,
    CCW license
    The phrase; "I wanted the threat to stop."
    Followed by; "I want an attorney."

    That is all they need from you. Any thing else can and will be used against you in a court of law.:vampire:
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  7. #6
    Damn turnip cart has a flat tire. I also am a disabled vet that had to learn ,You have the right to remain quiet if you can.Life for me is to short to not see humor in most things.

  8. I believe the less said the better. With that in mind, the most important think to make clear to the LEO is that you are the victim. This is why that call to 911 whether at home or on the road with a phone is vital. Letting the authorities know that you are being threatened, that the attackers are armed (whether you know for sure or not), and that you are in fear of your life is so important. If one is placed in a situation of having to defend their actions it is easy enough to secure a copy of the 911 tape to verify your situation, and is an important component in gun defense cases. However, not all agencies keep these for long periods. These tapes can sometimes be destroyed after 30 days, so it is important to secure a copy promptly.

    In Florida it is never a good idea to display, or point a handgun at anyone unless you absolutely believe that you are in fear of your life, or are preventing a forcible felony. When you display or point in any other case here you open yourself up to a charge of aggravated assault. This charge in Florida, if convicted carries a 3 year mandatory sentence, and judges have apologized to citizens that they had to send to jail simply because of the way in which this law is written. The use of force should always be equal to the threat. You can also be assured that even if you display a firearm in most situations, never pointing it at the attackers, they will almost always tell the LEO that you pointed it at them. Low life's are always low life's.

    Back to the issue of what to say.

    A simple statement like, "Officer, this individual broke into my home and I believed him to be armed, I was in fear for my life and the lives of my family and was forced to shoot."

    After this, I would not say another word without an attorney. If you are pressed, I would say something like, "Officer, I am very nervous right now, and would like the time to calm down before I make any further statements."

    If this does not satisfy him/her, my last resort would be to remind them that in most cases LEO's are given 24 hours to calm down and get their thoughts right before they see an investigator when they have been involved in a shooting.

    It is great advice to have an attorney's information with you if you intend to carry. More important is to have the information of an attorney who has experience with State gun laws, and preferably is a gun owner and 2nd Amendment supporter him or herself. Keep in mind that this could get costly, and most homeowners insurance will not cover anything like this. I do believe that the NRA does have some type of insurance that they offer with a limit of $50.000, but this only kicks in after you have spent the money, and won the case.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Palmach
    "Always at your command"
    "לפקודה תמיד אנחנו"

  9. #8
    The following was on the USCCA news letter today. Perhaps it will be of some help.


    PART ONE:
    "Don't Talk to the Police" by Professor James Duane

    PART TWO:
    "Don't Talk to the Police" by Officer George Bruch
    Last edited by lukem; 11-28-2010 at 09:22 PM.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  10. Many individuals are in a kind of shock following an event and assume that they will be within their rights and may think of the situation as a kind of traffic violation in terms of time required. However, a gun related activity is a very serious event and mandates all players on the front line. You shoud of course give the basic personal information including permit information. You should immediately call 911 to report the incident. You should tell the LEO that you are the one that called. You can tell the LEO that you were in fear of your life and that you shot to stop the threat. Of course, the physical evidence must support your statement. You should not say anything that is not true and you should be extremely careful of each word you say. You should tell the LEO to speak to your lawyer and you should immediately call your lawyer. It will be the first time for most folks for involvement with a criminal lawyer.

  11. #10
    In such a serious situation you should not be trying hard to avoid arrest - you should be trying hard to avoid a conviction! An arrest is not a conviction - say it with me. An arrest is not a conviction.

    You will probably be arrested no matter what you do. If you blabber like an idiot, trying to avoid arrest, you're likely to say something inaccurate or really stupid that will be held against you later. Calm down. Being cuffed and carted to the station is not the end of the world. Being convicted is.

    Identify yourself, claim self defense without going into detail, ask for your lawyer and shut up. If the physical evidence is against you, it doesn't matter how pretty you talk anyway.
    Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with this, except that it ain't so.

    -Mark Twain

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