When is it legal to brandish a firearm? - Page 6
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Thread: When is it legal to brandish a firearm?

  1. #51
    I'm going to have to say that I subscribe to the "point and shoot" process. If I truly feel threatened for my life enough to where I have to draw my weapon I WILL fire, I WILL be justified and I WILL NOT think about whether or not the BG had the stones to strike first. He already did in my eyes, and the jury's I'd hope.

    I'm a very laid back guy and at 6'1" and 185# I'm not big but, I can handle myself. I don't think many of my friends understand I'm as aware as I am of everything going on around me though. I preach this to them and my son constantly. KNOW WHO'S AROUND YOU! I have the same attitude about self preservation many of my fellow gun guys/gals have but, without that harsh militant attitude some seem to produce. Don't mistake that for a lack of willingness to fire my weapon to protect my loved ones though.

    Just my $.02
    Unapologetic American
    NRA/IDPA/USPSA/GSSF

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  3. #52
    If someone is 30 feet away from you but has a ball bat and is coming at you, I'd consider it safe to go to the low-ready stance. Once they get within 21 feet though they're gonna change their mind one way or another.
    Gun control: Forcing a 95lb woman to fist fight a 300lb rapist

  4. Lots of people stating interesting perspectives here, just read all 5 pages. Unfortunately this thread is suffering from black and white syndrome. And this is not a black and white issue, this is a huge grey area (both in practice and legally.) When you own a gun, it is not best to be "one-sided" about how you wield it. There are a million different scenarios and appropriate behaviours for each, and yes they will all be flying through your head a thousand miles an hour in a life/death situation.

    The truth is the closer proximitity (sp?) you are to potential threats (any sizeable living thing really) the more sense it makes to be carrying hot, because you are more likely to encounter a situation that requires less time to respond. (That's right, respond). A reaction is saying "ok I'm gonna shoot" and then pulling the trigger. Both are needed for action, but there is no intelligence there. A response is an intelligent, constantly changing counter-reaction, which is what you will need in a real life situation to get through un-harmed (both physically and legally).

    Which, regretfully, is why stupid people shouldn't be carrying guns. The more power/responsibility you wield the more intelligence it's going to take to control that power/responsibility. Carrying a hot sidearm (safely 100%, not 99.8%) requires in immense amount of intelligence.

    There is a phrase I believe most of us have heard before... it's called "situational awareness." It is part of an overall high awareness level, something many (most) of us lack. I haven't heard it mentioned once in over 50 posts on this thread. The truth is your ability survive in the world today requires an immense amount of situational awareness. Instead of training how to shoot 24/7 you all should take a few minutes to develop yours (if you aren't doing that already).

    I hope I'm not offending anyone, I don't mean to. I believe there was one more issue...about the whole quote from the guy talking about "paranoia" blah blah blah. It's a great quote to get a point across to the CCL guy, which is why I'm sure he put it there, but all in all it's crap. Yes it's true that "bare fear" the way he's describing it can seperate a paranoid person from someone who is situationally aware (he's going to attack me! vs what if he attacks me?), but that is way too much besides the point here. The reality of the matter: Anyone is a threat. Recognize that completely, then get over it completely (and yourself while your at it :P). Not singling anyone out here. It's up to you to respond intelligently to any situation as it presents itself to you. Many of us here seem to train mentally and physically. I think preparation is the key when owning a firearm. That doesn't mean however, by any stretch of the imagination, (at least when I say it) that you need to keep your gun hot all the time. At the end of the day, common sense prevails over clinging to beliefs about a situation. If of course, you have any to use in the first place :P
    We can argue semantics ALL DAY people. Let's try to be a little less black and white.
    But anyway, How's that for filling in some grey area? :)
    Sorry to add so much to this already lengthy thread, but thanks for listening to my opinion.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Torch View Post
    I'm with you guys. The only time I would ever brandish is, if in the act of drawing to shoot, the bad guy starts running. I wouldn't want to shoot somebody in the back.
    Exactly. I think in most states that this is the only instance where you can legally brandish the firearm.

    I would never brandish a firearm to deter someone although I actually have once. He was in my car, through the passenger side window, all the way in up to his belt yelling and screaming because I wouldn't turn on red and was holding him up. I gave him a stern get the F out of my car 6 or more times and finally put my hand on the gun in my holster. The eighth time I yelled the same thing, it came out about an inch or two so he could see movement. I wasn't in grave danger so there was no shoot.

    But, if the gun comes out it had better be to shoot. Obviously I can understand a circumstance where it doesn't happen this way but my advice is don't bring it out until it's time to shoot.

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by JosephR View Post
    Exactly. I think in most states that this is the only instance where you can legally brandish the firearm.

    I would never brandish a firearm to deter someone although I actually have once. He was in my car, through the passenger side window, all the way in up to his belt yelling and screaming because I wouldn't turn on red and was holding him up. I gave him a stern get the F out of my car 6 or more times and finally put my hand on the gun in my holster. The eighth time I yelled the same thing, it came out about an inch or two so he could see movement. I wasn't in grave danger so there was no shoot.

    But, if the gun comes out it had better be to shoot. Obviously I can understand a circumstance where it doesn't happen this way but my advice is don't bring it out until it's time to shoot.
    I would consider a person coming in through my passenger window to be a very clear and present threat, especially if they are hot & bothered about something as stupid as traffic flow.

    The fact that you were able to defuse the situation without resorting to violence is a good thing "brandishing" or not. To me it seemed more like you were preparing, not "brandishing." IANAL, but seriously, I would be afraid for my person in a situation like that. Although trouncing the skinny pedal, then mashing the brakes while he's hanging half-in half-out like that might change his mind too (traffic allowing of course).

    Back on (sorta) topic:
    Several IF's come up when I think about this. I practice primarily a "draw and drop safety" -- but leave out the shoot (mostly because I'm in my house -- but it also will ensure that the decision to shoot is a conscious one, not one born of muscle memory), but each situation is different. Hopefully there will be enough time for the BG to have the "lights turn on" and choose not to pursue his crime any further. If no-one dies or gets hurt, that's always the best. But if it comes down to it, I don't plan on it being me.

    It's all about being prepared, and being able to use your best judgement and instincts at the time -- and praying that that time never comes.

    That prayer is the main reason I prefer to OC when I'm out and about. I practice being aware, but I also practice being a poor choice in targets. I WILL fight back, and that's 3/4's of the battle.
    Taurus PT92
    17+1 9mm

  7. #56
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    I had an incident a little while back in a store parking lot. While putting bags in my car, I saw a guy coming up to me from about 20 yards (he seemed to appear out of nowhere). I stopped what I was doing so that I wouldn't be caught unawares, and he gave his spiel about being lost and needing bus money to get back to wherever or some such crap. I told him "no" a few times, and then he started in with the "ride to an ATM" bit.

    He wasn't acting aggressively yet, but I felt like I was being set up for his buddies to move in or something. He was also moving a little closer to me, which I found creepy. I didn't want to turn my back on him to get in the car, and I didn't want to be in a position for a robbery inside of my own car.

    I was carrying IWB on my right side with my shirt untucked, so I took my right hand and moved it up under my shirt and got a good grip on my weapon. Nothing could be seen and it never left the holster; my shirt covered my entire hand and wrist. However, it clearly wasn't in my pocket.

    He quickly said goodbye, and I watched him make a beeline for another part of the parking lot.

    I never brandished a weapon or even gave any verbal indications; he just read my body language. As far as he knew, it could have been anything from a cell phone or a knife to a gun, or absolutely nothing. In any case, he decided it was time to leave.
    Silent Running, by Mike and the Mechanics

  8. #57
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    Must be something about reaching for one's waistband that makes a BG think that you're not gonna be an easy victim.

    Glad everything played out o.k.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  9. #58
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    Good situational awareness and good handling of the situation. Any time you can get out of a predicament without firing a shot, that's a good thing, brandishing or not.
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  10. #59
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    Depending on the environmental situation, the threat threshold could be extended so that an aggressor is not allowed to get close enough to negate the appearance of a weapon. Walking with my wife once in a parking lot, we were approached by a gent who declined to answer me when I asked if I could help him at a distance of 50-60 feet..... at 30 feet, I simply pulled my shirt tail back and revealed the handgun still in it's holster. He never said a word, but turned and walked away. My wife had already stepped behind me and was on the phone to the police. Cops showed up and took our report, and told me to have a good evening.

    In my opinion the distance at which you choose to challenge a potential aggressor has to be flexible. I do train with my wife, and this scenario is just one of several that we discuss now and then...
    Only when our arms are sufficient, without doubt, can we be certain, without doubt, that they will never be employed....... John F. Kennedy
    Life Member NRA Life Member Marine Corps League

  11. #60
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    Thought provoking thread

    I have not read the entire thread, but most of it. There is a lot of stuff here to encourage a revisit of any thoughts about one's readiness to defend one's self. I believe that its good to do just that from time to time, kind of like a "booster shot" to keep a fresh perspective.

    I have never been in the situation to have to make that ultimate choice.

    I would like to imagine that there would be that 10 millisecond (an eternity when faced with death) window between the time one takes up the slack in the trigger, you can feel the first two safeties disengaging on a glock, and the release of the third safety and the striker, where one could abort if appropriate.

    Again, I've never been there, but I believe that, for me, the non-negotiable draw = fire approach would not be an option, but that is just me. I cant imagine that looking down the business end of a gun would not be a deterrent, then again, I can't imagine the depravity of being the BG so maybe my imagination is not an appropriate metric here...

    Each situation is unique, and each post sheds light on some of the choices one would have to make.

    What bakes my noodle is the apparent disparity between an unconditional respect for the sanctity of human life and the undeniable responsibility we have to use lethal force to preserve it.

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