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Thread: Defense of a third party

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
    Posts
    3,004
    In Texas we could but I have decided to wait on the police for all incidents not involving myself or my immediate family, not from worry over the law but for fear of aiding an anti gun nut that don't want me to have a firearm.

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  3. #12

    Defense of a third party

    Maybe it's just me out there but if I saw some being raped, or physically assaulted, screw the liabilities, I'm helping that person. Whether that involves use of a firearm or not, the situation will dictate. Sorry, but it's the right thing to do and F anybody who tries to tell me otherwise. I have no desire to be superman (aside from the flying bit) but I'm also not about to stand there and watch an innocent person get attacked doing nothing other than calling police. Everybody on here knows 90% of the time police are too late to stop anything.

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Southwest Idaho
    Posts
    282
    In Idaho I can use deadly force against somebody committing a felony on somebody.
    TITLE 18
    CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
    CHAPTER 40
    HOMICIDE
    18-4009. JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable
    when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
    1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
    felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
    2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against
    one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a
    felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent,
    riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the
    purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
    3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or
    husband, parent, child, master, mistress or servant of such person, when there
    is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some
    great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished;
    but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was
    the assailant or engaged in mortal combat, must really and in good faith have
    endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed;
    or,
    4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to
    apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any
    riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Maybe it's just me out there but if I saw some being raped, or physically assaulted, screw the liabilities, I'm helping that person. Whether that involves use of a firearm or not, the situation will dictate. Sorry, but it's the right thing to do and F anybody who tries to tell me otherwise. I have no desire to be superman (aside from the flying bit) but I'm also not about to stand there and watch an innocent person get attacked doing nothing other than calling police. Everybody on here knows 90% of the time police are too late to stop anything.
    please tell us how you decide whom the innocent party is

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Danmc View Post
    In Idaho I can use deadly force against somebody committing a felony on somebody.
    most state have similar laws, however I will ask the same question again, how do you decide whom the victim is?

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    most state have similar laws, however I will ask the same question again, how do you decide whom the victim is?
    God gave me a brain, and Bless His Foresight, He also gave me common sense and a sound mind. I know how to use them.
    If it's a rape, how could you not know? If it is an old couple being attacked by some young punk, how could you not know? The situation will dictate what I should do under the circumstances. And I will do what my good common sense and my brain tells me to do. It isn't selfishness. It's right over evil/wrong.
    Stop, Drop, and Roll won't work in Hell.
    The truth about the former Republic of the United States of America:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Ioz...ayer_embedded#

  8. #17
    god did give you a brain however you seem to have chosen not to use it to it's full capacity.

    I can show you many examples on training videos that I've worked with that can show you many common situations that you might encounter and how easy it is to make a tragically bad choice of whom is the attacker and/or whom the one who needs assistance.
    sir: I wish that you never are put into a position where you'd need to use a firearm in yours or anyone else's defense and if you do I hope that you choose wisely when you pull that trigger.

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Maybe it's just me out there but if I saw some being raped, or physically assaulted, screw the liabilities, I'm helping that person. Whether that involves use of a firearm or not, the situation will dictate. Sorry, but it's the right thing to do and F anybody who tries to tell me otherwise. I have no desire to be superman (aside from the flying bit) but I'm also not about to stand there and watch an innocent person get attacked doing nothing other than calling police. Everybody on here knows 90% of the time police are too late to stop anything.
    .
    There are so many ways for you to get it wrong, catastrophically wrong, that they can’t all possibly be discussed on this forum. You come upon two guys in a fistfight. One is losing, badly, even bloodied up a bit. Are you witnessing a felony? Do you have any idea what happened before? Are you fully trained, tested, and certified on what legally constitutes a felony in your state? Let’s muddy it up a bit. You come upon a little old lady, screeching, and little old man on the ground wrestling with a “thug” and clearly getting the worst of it. You draw your firearm and begin barking commands. Enter armed citizen #2 (or how about a cop?), who comes upon the scene 10 seconds after you. He “sees” “thug” and old man on the ground with another “thug” drawing down on them with a firearm. He elects to draw down on YOU. Now what? How about this: The “thug” is actually the old lady’s son, wrestling away a gun you couldn’t see that had somehow found its way into the old man’s hand (he suffers from dementia)……you just shot her son. Stranger things happen every single day. Even if you watch the entire scenario unfold from the beginning you can still get it completely wrong.
    .
    Unless you are a trained, sworn, credentialed LEO with jurisdiction to act, you, as a responsible armed citizen, have no duty, warrant, or commission to act. If you inject yourself, with a DEADLY WEAPON, into a situation in which you were not threatened or involved you are taking enormous risks. If you have family responsibilities you are placing them at risk also. You could by your actions be making the situation much, much worse. Since society has given you no authority to act, and you are under no obligation to do so, there will be absolutely no forgiveness if you are wrong. Your good citizen’s good intentions will mean nothing.
    .
    Am I saying you should never act unless you or your loved ones are directly threatened? No. What I am saying is you need to approach that idea with your eyes and mind wide open as to what the possible (likely) consequences are going to be. You need to understand that it is very, very easy for you to make a LETHAL mistake. You need to understand that, in the end, if everything turns out that you made a righteous decision/action, your life (and your family’s) will be turned upside down for at least a couple of years, and you may be bankrupt financially. If you were wrong, you are the FELON now.

  10. #19
    Wish I knew how to multiquote. JCliff, you're from Wisconsin, and your examples don't mention the fact that JCreek and I both mentioned that the situation would dictate what we would do, which is using common sense. apvbguy, I'm just guessing, but I don't believe you're from Texas, either, but not that it makes that much difference. But.
    The thing is, our laws in Texas show us that society has given us average joes the authority to act in anothers behalf... our laws allow someone who is committing a felony to be stopped... with deadly force, if necessary. The fact that I didn't mention all the hypothetical instances that could be dreamed up, doesn't mean that I wouldn't use the brain and good common sense that God gave me. I just brought up the things that came immediately to mind when I "liked" JCreek's post.
    And my decision wouldn't be based on whether I had a gun or not. My decision would be made, based on what is right and what is wrong. And right is just like truth. Both are absolute, regardless of what the politically correct and modern crowd espouses.
    If something happened that was questionable, I would use my brain and common sense to not make stupid mistakes.
    Just my opinion, mind you. Whether you gents agree or not.
    Stop, Drop, and Roll won't work in Hell.
    The truth about the former Republic of the United States of America:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Ioz...ayer_embedded#

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Southwest Idaho
    Posts
    282
    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    most state have similar laws, however I will ask the same question again, how do you decide whom the victim is?
    If I walk in to a situation already in progress, and I have to ask myself that question, "who is the victim?", then I should probably not apply deadly force. And if that is the case, and depending on the situation, I may at least make my presence known which would hopefully scare the attacker away. There are just too many variables, not all situations are going to be the same. I may just have to do nothing and simply be a good witness, and hope that I made the right choice.

    EDIT: not hope that I made the right choice, but believe that I made the right choice.

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