Type of Ammo = Premeditated if CC Fired - Page 3
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Thread: Type of Ammo = Premeditated if CC Fired

  1. Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    are you inferring that Mas is not a credible source of info?
    I am inferring Ayoob can write nonsense as well as anyone.

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by KyTopGun View Post
    I am inferring Ayoob can write nonsense as well as anyone.
    Sir, mr ayoob does not need me to defend him, however I will say that his record as an expert witness in many courts cases has a lot more validity than the comments from some internet wiz who is on his 4th post here. YMMV

  4. Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    Sir, mr ayoob does not need me to defend him, however I will say that his record as an expert witness in many courts cases has a lot more validity than the comments from some internet wiz who is on his 4th post here. YMMV
    As I said before, if you really want to learn something, do some research.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by KyTopGun View Post
    As I said before, if you really want to learn something, do some research.
    like I said an expert witness like ayoob has in the past and probably would in the future rip any prosecution to shreds if they tried any type of attack on a shooter's choice of ammo, provided it wasn't some sort of absurd concoction.
    I couldn't imagine what you could be alluding to with these cryptic responses why don't you share with us this wealth of knowledge you are trying to let us know that you possess.

  6. #25
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    I load my TCP with Zombie Max ammo!
    Cause ya just never know!


    Sent from behind enemy lines.

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Oscarob View Post
    I read an article several years ago about a citizen who had to use his carry pistol in a confrontation. He had to defend himself in court against a premeditation charge because his rounds were considered "too deadly." As I recollect, the rounds were a high velocity-high expand.

    I am wondering if this is a real issue or just academic.

    Any thoughts or anecdotes?
    We're discussing that sort of thing every few months. It's an Internet myth, nobody can find a real case reference to where that has actually happened.
    Knarren und Zigarren!!!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    like I said an expert witness like ayoob has in the past and probably would in the future rip any prosecution to shreds if they tried any type of attack on a shooter's choice of ammo, provided it wasn't some sort of absurd concoction.
    That ripping to shreds has never happened and will not happen, simply because ammo is not a factor in a self defense case. Feel free to show that I am wrong.

    I couldn't imagine what you could be alluding to with these cryptic responses why don't you share with us this wealth of knowledge you are trying to let us know that you possess.
    The NJ v Bias case has been used in discussion of ammo choice, so let's look at it.
    Ayoob wrote in his Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry, that since the handloads were loaded in +P cases, the prosecution used commercial +P loads in the forensic testing. He also wrote that the defense testing of reloads was not allowed to be presented. That was untrue on both counts.

    Ayoob's own words in another forum: "We duplicated that load, and determined that with all of them and particularly the 2.3 grain load, GSR distribution was so light that it could not be reliably gathered or recovered, from distances as short as 24”. Notice how he worded that, to minimize the distance.

    State police firearms expert testimony: "It seemed that no matter how low I went with powder and how heavy a bullet I used, there was recoverable residue at 36 inches" from the muzzle. There was very heavy residue at 20 inches. There would be massive recovery at 5 inches from the blast."

    NH v Kennedy: Ayoob wrote "This was the first case where I saw the argument, “Why wasn’t regular ammunition deadly enough for you,” used by opposing counsel. They charged Kennedy with aggravated assault. They made a large issue out of his use of handloads, suggesting that they were indicative of a reckless man obsessed with causing maximum damage".

    I don't know if the use handloads was a factor, or not. However, if we assume that handloads were the cause of Kennedy's problems, then that necessarily means that it is O.K. for a police officer to shoot an unarmed drunk, if he uses commercial ammo.

    Ayoob's stories about "hair triggers" is for another discussion.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyTopGun View Post
    That ripping to shreds has never happened and will not happen, simply because ammo is not a factor in a self defense case.

    I don't know if the use handloads was a factor, or not.

    hmmmm... ? ... good thing I"m not an expert...
    Only when our arms are sufficient, without doubt, can we be certain, without doubt, that they will never be employed....... John F. Kennedy
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    hmmmm... ? ... good thing I"m not an expert...
    So, you're saying Kennedy acted in self-defense?

  11. #30
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    Remedial reading.. I said nothing of the sort. I said I"m not an expert. I indicated that by your own posts that you contradicted yourself.

    I'll put much more credence in Ayoob's writings and opinions that I will yours. There comes a time that some folks who are thought to be a fool should remain silent, so as not to prove it.

    You have yerself a great day.
    Only when our arms are sufficient, without doubt, can we be certain, without doubt, that they will never be employed....... John F. Kennedy
    Life Member NRA Life Member Marine Corps League

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