Type of Ammo = Premeditated if CC Fired - Page 5
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Thread: Type of Ammo = Premeditated if CC Fired

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Pasco, Washington, United States
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    6,271
    so it seems...in a few of the mas ayoob explanations of the cases, the prosecutor was using "hollow point ammunition" and not "handloads" in their case against the defendant. Two points I want to ask.

    One: Those that say do not use handloads because the prosecutor will use that information against you, do you use hollow points? Because in the cases linked earlier on this thread, the use of hollow points gets you the same exact treatment, with one of two outcomes, convicted or acquitted and bankrupt.

    Two: In the handful of cases I spent my time reading, the prosecutor failed because the defending lawyer made little of that argument and either had the defendant acquitted or the trial had a hung jury. In all the cases I read, it seems the legal fee's were astounding. With all that said, because it's a lose lose situation (you either live and go bankrupt, or die), what does it matter which ammo you choose? If you handload more reliable ammo, that's the ammo you feel comfortable with, then what is wrong with using that ammo? If the answer is because the prosecutor will use that information against you, then refer to point one (they all ready do that to hollow points, so do you also not carry hollow points?).
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Houston, Texas, United States
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    If it was up to certain politicians, JHP Ammo would be illegal (Except for police and them)

  4. #43
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by maine04619 View Post
    In a class I took many years ago taught by Massad Ayoob this is the advice he gave. That way IF by chance you end up in front of a jury and the prosecutor asks you why you where using such deadly ammo you can reply because that is what the police use..
    In this day and age, using the argument that your SD ammo is the same as that used by the PD will likely be used against you. After all, the police are engaged in a high stress, inherently dangerous profession, and because they are charged with protecting the general public and have a higher likelihood of finding themselves confronted by an armed bad guy, they are justified in using the most powerful ammo on which they can lay their hands. But Joe Public has no such need as, theoretically, their likelihood of finding themselves in such a situation is lower - particularly since (here's where another of our arguments will be used against us) the incidence of violent crime is so low these days (conveniently ignoring WHY crime is so low). In states where one must prove a "need" to carry in the first place (thankfully, I don't live in one of those at this time, although I think that could change after the next state election), I would expect the same kind of standard to be applied to my choice of SD ammo as well. It is exactly the same reasoning underlying the argument that soldiers have a right to be armed more heavily than civilians - they NEED powerful firearms and ammo, you as a civilian have no such need. I would fully expect to have those arguments used against me if I ever found myself in a SD situation .

  5. #44
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    So we should all just use the weakest ammo because libtards say so ?

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennydale View Post
    So we should all just use the weakest ammo because libtards say so ?
    Actually, Massad Ayob and his advise not withstanding there is considerable debate on whether or not the choice of ammo will really be useful against you.
    Knarren und Zigarren!!!

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Reno NV
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    I've got Winchester Ranger T +P's in my 45 in my EDC weapon. I did a lot of research on bullets before settling on this ammo. The main reason I chose it is that I believe it will be the most effective as far as stopping power is concerned. Out in the wild streets you never know what you're going to encounter. I'd hate to encounter some guy with a sword, hopped up on drugs, and not have the most effective ammo I can possibly carry. My first priority in a SD situation is to survive it first and deal with the minutia afterwards, afterwards. Kind of a tried by 12 than carried by 6 thang.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed​ lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    I did not read all the 5 pages of replies but if the cartridges can be purchased legitimately, there is no illegality, as far as I am concerned. If I am in imminent danger, I intend to use the biggest and baddest legal "bang for the buck" to stop the threat and make sure I stopped the threat.

  9. #48
    i use hornady zombie defense rounds ..it's what they make em for heheh
    gun control is being able to hit your target

  10. #49
    It would not make any difference what ammo you use. If the county or city where you defended yourself has a lib prosecutor or someone who wants to make headlines then they will charge you even if you loaded with rock salt or bird shot. Sorry to say this but this what I believe. But even with this belief I still will carry. If anyone is more afraid of our "wonderful" court system than BGs then you should leave your weapon at home and unloaded.

  11. Ayoob STARTED all this bs, because he was part owner of CorBon ammo company, and he recommended cor bon ammo. Prior to him making a big deal of it in his books and magazine articles, it was never even considered as part of a criminal or civil case. I cant even come close to the effectiveness of my handloads for a pocket 9, using commercial ammo. So I will continue to use them.

    It is very rare to have to hit anyone with a bullet, normally just the sight of your gun suffices. If it doesn't, I know enough (from shooting animals) to know that commercial loads don't amount to much, in any caliber, if they are adequately controlable in rapidfire, from a lw, compact ccw gun. Until you get into 135 gr jhp loads at 1500 fps in a 5" 10mm, pistol ammo, using jhps, just aint got much "oomph", and such loads aint very controlable, unless your gun weighs 40+ ozs, (which means that it aint no ccw piece). I'll worry about the ammo after i have survived a confrontation. If the handloads are put up in all the same brand of brass, same caseheads, virgin brass, the odds are very high that the cops will never KNOW that they are reloads, actually. Mine look just like WW Silvertip 380 jhp's, but mine are solid aluminum. :-) Very few cops know that the aluminum jacketed bullet has not been used in the 9mm WW ammo since the first few months of production. Instead, the 9mm Silvertip is a nickelplated copper jhp. Did you know that? :-)

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