Post-shooting Police statement
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  1. #1

    Post-shooting Police statement

    So I was at work today, taking my armed security recertification class and the instructor mentioned something I hadn't heard of or though of before concerning how to handle talking to police after having to use deadly force.

    The way he laid it out, he said there were three basic options. The first: spill your guts as soon as police arrive on scene, while adrenaline is still pumping and you're still in shock. This could cause you to possibly misstate incorrectly recall a detail, such as how many shots were fired, possibly causing you to lose credibility in the investigators eyes.

    The second was to immediately lawyer up. This would cause police to detain you based on the facts present, and possibly haul you in in handcuffs for questioning. Keep in mind, he's talking about on-duty shootings. In his eyes, if there are bystanders or media present, and they see a guy in a uniform (or anyone for that matter) being hauled away in handcuffs, it immediately gives them the impression that he is the bad guy and could cause a huge trial by media influencing the outcome.

    The third option he mentioned was the one I hadn't thought of before. When the police start to question you, immediately tell them you are still feeling the effects of shock (elevated heart rate and blood pressure, possible shortness of breath) and request to be taken to the hospital to be examined and treated. This does two things. One, you leave the scene in an ambulance looking like a victim to the media, rather than in handcuffs looking like a suspect. Two, since you have made it clear you are not in the proper mental capacity to give a statement, anything you say until cleared by a physician is inadmissible in court.

    I have mixed feelings about his thoughts and was wondering your opinions.

    I've been in several high adrenaline situations. I also know my memory, and I trust my ability to calm down quickly from a high intensity situation and give clear, concise facts, much more than I trust my ability to recall the same facts a day or two later when I finally give a statement.

    Also, our company works very closely with police. I don't know how accurate his assumption is that if a security officer chose to seek legal counsel after a shooting, that they would be handcuffed and hauled away unless the facts at the scene clearly pointed to something more sinister than a SD situation. I think our local PD would have a little more tact than that and realize we are one the same side and I'm just trying to make the best legal decision possible.

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  3. #2
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    Don't hold your breath with the local PD. They play politics just like the FBI and State police. I do like the third option, though.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Two, since you have made it clear you are not in the proper mental capacity to give a statement, anything you say until cleared by a physician is inadmissible in court.
    Can you site an actual statute or case law that supports this?

    Most of what you’ve posted here is a rehash of what Masaad Ayoob has said on this topic previously.
    His take is that you point out witnesses and evidence to the police (officer those people were witnesses / Officer there is the bad guy’s gun) and then tell them that you are in no condition to make a statement at this time and you’d like to receive medical care and speak to your attorney but that you will be happy to make a statement and they’ll have your complete cooperation in 24 hours.


    What is your company policy? What has your company done in the past?
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Can you site an actual statute or case law that supports this?

    Most of what you’ve posted here is a rehash of what Masaad Ayoob has said on this topic previously.
    His take is that you point out witnesses and evidence to the police (officer those people were witnesses / Officer there is the bad guy’s gun) and then tell them that you are in no condition to make a statement at this time and you’d like to receive medical care and speak to your attorney but that you will be happy to make a statement and they’ll have your complete cooperation in 24 hours.


    What is your company policy? What has your company done in the past?
    Can you cite an actual statute or case law that refutes what Masaad Ayoob has said?

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Can you cite an actual statute or case law that refutes what Masaad Ayoob has said?
    Why would I? What Ayoob says is simply his opinion which is not the same as stating authoritatively that something is or isn’t admissible in a court of law.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  7. Personally, option 3 seems like the one that is likely to produce a more favorable outcome. Face it, when you're pumped up with adrenaline during the event, the body shifts to "fight or flee" mode without conscious control. I think that allowing the time to get over the shakes that come after the adrenaline rush, you're probably much better off to be able to decompress and think through that stressful situation.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    So I was at work today, taking my armed security recertification class and the instructor mentioned something I hadn't heard of or though of before concerning how to handle talking to police after having to use deadly force.

    The way he laid it out, he said there were three basic options. The first: spill your guts as soon as police arrive on scene, while adrenaline is still pumping and you're still in shock. This could cause you to possibly misstate incorrectly recall a detail, such as how many shots were fired, possibly causing you to lose credibility in the investigators eyes.

    The second was to immediately lawyer up. This would cause police to detain you based on the facts present, and possibly haul you in in handcuffs for questioning. Keep in mind, he's talking about on-duty shootings. In his eyes, if there are bystanders or media present, and they see a guy in a uniform (or anyone for that matter) being hauled away in handcuffs, it immediately gives them the impression that he is the bad guy and could cause a huge trial by media influencing the outcome.

    The third option he mentioned was the one I hadn't thought of before. When the police start to question you, immediately tell them you are still feeling the effects of shock (elevated heart rate and blood pressure, possible shortness of breath) and request to be taken to the hospital to be examined and treated. This does two things. One, you leave the scene in an ambulance looking like a victim to the media, rather than in handcuffs looking like a suspect. Two, since you have made it clear you are not in the proper mental capacity to give a statement, anything you say until cleared by a physician is inadmissible in court.

    I have mixed feelings about his thoughts and was wondering your opinions.

    I've been in several high adrenaline situations. I also know my memory, and I trust my ability to calm down quickly from a high intensity situation and give clear, concise facts, much more than I trust my ability to recall the same facts a day or two later when I finally give a statement.

    Also, our company works very closely with police. I don't know how accurate his assumption is that if a security officer chose to seek legal counsel after a shooting, that they would be handcuffed and hauled away unless the facts at the scene clearly pointed to something more sinister than a SD situation. I think our local PD would have a little more tact than that and realize we are one the same side and I'm just trying to make the best legal decision possible.
    Or you can take a different route. You can say that you encountered the bad actor and felt that the use of force was necessary and then stop talking. You can then say that although you're certain that the officers on seen are going to act in accordance to all laws, someone should be there to make sure that all of your rights are respected. Therefore, you request questioning to continue when your union rep or lawyer gets here.

    Don't be afraid to exercise ALL your rights.

  9. #8
    I think, most importantly be honest. Make sure when calling 911 that you leave the phone on so everything is witnessed or recorded. Second, identify and describe yourself as the victim and disarm immediately when they arrive. Thirdly, delay giving any testimony immediately. There will be an immediate knee-jerk suspicion by LEO. A trip to the hospital is a good idea. It will confirm your mental stability and record any injuries you may have received. Then give testimony, lawyer in tow, before details get fuzzy or forgotten. IMHO

  10. #9
    I saw a presentation by 2 men, an atty and a cop who was about to retire and go into law practice. It was a long show but they both absolutely agreed that you should not say ANYTHING to the cops without your atty being present. Nothing good comes from talking. They go through several scenarios and nothing was to be gained by immediately cooperating and tons of bad things could result - even when you are totally innocent of any wrong doing. A simple error of filling in the blank of something you don't quite remember which is natural for humans, could end up just killing your credibility later. If I find the link I'll post it but I'm really crappy at this tech stuff. The cop had conducted literally thousands of interviews and he talked about how often guys who opened up got hammered, time and time again. He laughed about how easy it was to get guys talking and once started you couldn't shut them up. A huge point was that even the slightest mistatement could be used by an opposing atty and would ruin you credibility, even if it was a harmless comment.
    I'd say be extremely cautious. In fact I would not say a word till after seeing an atty - period. I was that convinced after spending about an hour listening to the 2 of them.

    OK, it is on you tube. "Don't talk to cops" part 1 by Mr. James Duane, a prof at regent law school. "Don't talk to cops" part 2 is by M.P. Anon. Please take the time to listen to both parts. It is the best explanation I have ever heard.
    Last edited by farsidefan1; 06-12-2013 at 07:02 PM. Reason: adding link info
    Typos are for the entertainment of the reader. Don't let it go to your head!

  11. #10
    Many years ago when I first started purchasing firearms; I read books about firearms and what to do after you have been involved in a shooting. One of those books was by Mr. Masaad Ayoob. I remember to this day that he stated that you should expect to be arrested after a shoot. When I took my CPL/CCW class we were taught to be respectful and say to the officer that at this time I have nothing to say involving this matter until I have spoken to my attorney. LEO's themselves are prepped not to say anything after an officer involved shoot and to request to turn there weapon over to a supervisor and to get there union rep. Everybody knows that your BP is going to be elevated and that you are going to be hyped. I really don't care what it looks like. Unless I am having a heart attack or about to fall out I am not going to pretend. If you pull your weapon and shoot then it sure as HELL better be justified.

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