At work shooting
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Thread: At work shooting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Flint, Michigan
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    Arrow At work shooting

    I came real close to pulling the trigger the other day at work, Im going to try and keep some details a bit vague so I dont post any private information or details that would give the property away. I work as an Armed Security Officer in Michigan, Im a "Community Policing Supervisor" meaning I manage all of our housing sites. I was assigned to cover a property due to an employee calling off. This occurred during normal business hours, it was approximately 11:50am when the Property Manager asked me to deliver some lease violation letters which is a normal activity for 1st shift to do. I started at the middle section of the property being it was closer to the office area and I wanted to keep my eye on a few females who happened to appear like they were having some minor dispute over one party not calling the other party back. I didnt take it as something that needed to be addressed at that moment due to one half of the party being in the parking area while the other was on a balcony.
    I got to my first apartment (which happened to be about 20 feet from the people arguing) and handed them the letter, the "minor altercation" seemed to calm down at this point, as I began to walk to the persons who appeared to be arguing the person I handed the lease violation to began asking me some questions about the notice, as I turned my attention back toward the person who asked about the lease violation I heard a loud POP/Bang noise. Obviously shooting firearms for a long time now, I know what a gunshot sounds like, I quickly turned toward the direction I heard it coming from and observed a female with a silver pistol pointed at several individuals on the balcony. I heard two more shots, I drew my firearm and took a defensive posture behind the motor block of a vehicle and demanded the female drop her weapon (yes, my weapon was pointed at the females in the parking area). She fired 3 more times as she entered the passenger side of a vehicle.
    The only thing that kept me from firing was ignorant residents began coming out side to "see what was happening" and one happened to be right behind what would have been my intended target, they went back inside after I assume they seen the shots were being fired right outside their apartment. What seemed like milliseconds later the vehicle left at a high rate of speed. Me not being an LEO, I did not attempt to follow the vehicle, instead, I stayed put for a few moments, I wasnt sure if there were more persons shooting from the balcony area or not considering the angle I was now at. I called police who stated they were already notified, I advised them I was an armed S/O and currently had my weapon drawn, gave them make and model of the vehicle in question. The dispatcher advised me to wait for police and requested I holster my firearm, (stupidly I refused on the phone) I told her I wasnt sure if there was a threat still or not and gave my position in the complex.
    Seconds later two police officers arrived, and I holstered my firearm, they obviously seen me. The officers asked me to come to them, as I could tell they were at a better angle to make the call than I was.
    Longer story short, there was only 1 shooter, the other half was apparently the lesbian lover of the shooter who wanted nothing more to do with her, which caused her to obviously get upset. No one was hurt and the female was later found and charged with some 8 felonies. I was told I would have been justified if I were have used deadly force, however I was also told it was a good choice to hold fire considering my back stop was an occupied apartment. Scary thing was the female shooter only hit the building 4 times, 2 rounds hit an apartment that had nothing to do with the altercation, one round hit the window, the other hit the door, the remaining 2 we found hit a post and a balcony ceiling. Amazingly enough, again, no one was hurt.

    Question is, would you have held your fire? I feel I made the right decision in not firing, adrenaline was going pretty good, had a good sight picture, and an active shooter, but just didnt feel right at the moment, and the weapon was from what I could tell, never pointed at me, although, MI law states "in the defense of your life, or someone elses."
    I dont know...Your thoughts?
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  2.   
  3. #2
    If it had been pointed in my direction. Yes...

    I think you made the right call.
    If it doesn't fit, FORCE it! If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway.


  4. Sounds like you made the correct call. Never been in that position to say one way or the other. I probably would have frozen and later have to clean out my pants. If she had continued to fire or reloaded to fire again, I may have favored pulling the trigger. Hard question to answer.

  5. #4
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    Mar 2009
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    Austin, Texas, United States
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    321
    The reality is that it doesn't matter what anyone else would have done. You made the decision that you felt was right at the time and nobody can argue with that.

  6. #5
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    Dec 2011
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    I came real close to pulling the trigger the other day at work, Im going to try and keep some details a bit vague so I dont post any private information or details that would give the property away. I work as an Armed Security Officer in Michigan, Im a "Community Policing Supervisor" meaning I manage all of our housing sites. I was assigned to cover a property due to an employee calling off. This occurred during normal business hours, it was approximately 11:50am when the Property Manager asked me to deliver some lease violation letters which is a normal activity for 1st shift to do. I started at the middle section of the property being it was closer to the office area and I wanted to keep my eye on a few females who happened to appear like they were having some minor dispute over one party not calling the other party back. I didnt take it as something that needed to be addressed at that moment due to one half of the party being in the parking area while the other was on a balcony.
    I got to my first apartment (which happened to be about 20 feet from the people arguing) and handed them the letter, the "minor altercation" seemed to calm down at this point, as I began to walk to the persons who appeared to be arguing the person I handed the lease violation to began asking me some questions about the notice, as I turned my attention back toward the person who asked about the lease violation I heard a loud POP/Bang noise. Obviously shooting firearms for a long time now, I know what a gunshot sounds like, I quickly turned toward the direction I heard it coming from and observed a female with a silver pistol pointed at several individuals on the balcony. I heard two more shots, I drew my firearm and took a defensive posture behind the motor block of a vehicle and demanded the female drop her weapon (yes, my weapon was pointed at the females in the parking area). She fired 3 more times as she entered the passenger side of a vehicle.
    The only thing that kept me from firing was ignorant residents began coming out side to "see what was happening" and one happened to be right behind what would have been my intended target, they went back inside after I assume they seen the shots were being fired right outside their apartment. What seemed like milliseconds later the vehicle left at a high rate of speed. Me not being an LEO, I did not attempt to follow the vehicle, instead, I stayed put for a few moments, I wasnt sure if there were more persons shooting from the balcony area or not considering the angle I was now at. I called police who stated they were already notified, I advised them I was an armed S/O and currently had my weapon drawn, gave them make and model of the vehicle in question. The dispatcher advised me to wait for police and requested I holster my firearm, (stupidly I refused on the phone) I told her I wasnt sure if there was a threat still or not and gave my position in the complex.
    Seconds later two police officers arrived, and I holstered my firearm, they obviously seen me. The officers asked me to come to them, as I could tell they were at a better angle to make the call than I was.
    Longer story short, there was only 1 shooter, the other half was apparently the lesbian lover of the shooter who wanted nothing more to do with her, which caused her to obviously get upset. No one was hurt and the female was later found and charged with some 8 felonies. I was told I would have been justified if I were have used deadly force, however I was also told it was a good choice to hold fire considering my back stop was an occupied apartment. Scary thing was the female shooter only hit the building 4 times, 2 rounds hit an apartment that had nothing to do with the altercation, one round hit the window, the other hit the door, the remaining 2 we found hit a post and a balcony ceiling. Amazingly enough, again, no one was hurt.

    Question is, would you have held your fire? I feel I made the right decision in not firing, adrenaline was going pretty good, had a good sight picture, and an active shooter, but just didnt feel right at the moment, and the weapon was from what I could tell, never pointed at me, although, MI law states "in the defense of your life, or someone elses."
    I dont know...Your thoughts?
    I think you handled it well.

    I had a similar type of situation happen to me in the San Fernando Valley (Southern California) when I was working as an armed security patrol officer. I was at a check cashing account waiting to escort the check cashing employees after closing time. Another officer showed up to hang out with me and chat for a bit (as we both would do on occasion). While we were talking we could hear shouting and a woman screaming at the end of the parking lot, the commotion was coming from a small red compact car but we could not really see what was going on because of a white van that was blocking our view.

    We both carefully approached the red vehicle and we saw some scruffy looking caucasian male outside of the red vehicle with his back turned to us. The unknown caucasian male was verbally threatening both of the african american occupants (local barbers that I quickly recognized).
    As we further approached for a closer look the female barber (victim) shouted at us to help her and her husband.
    At this moment, the unknown caucasian male quickly turned around and it was at that time that both I and my fellow security officer saw that he was holding a stainless steel revolver in his hand. (It appeared to be a .357 magnum).

    We both very quickly drew both of our sidearms and took cover behind the van while shouting "Gun!"
    Just as we were about to light his a$$ up, the unknown gunman quickly fled the scene running towards to 405 freeway onramp.
    We did not give chase, but we immediatly secured the area & notified dispatch (who in turn notified the LAPD).
    The LAPD 'eventually' showed up (all at the same time) with a helicopter and 8 units (about 20 minutes later).
    The LAPD searched the area, but they never caught the gunman.

    To make a long story short, one of our security managers threatened to reprimand me and the other security officer for 'breaking leather'.
    I basically told that manager to go get bent. If he wanted to fire me, then he could go on ahead, because they are not paying us enough to get shot at without being able to shoot back. Needless to say, he very quickly backed off.
    Fascist's are Magicians...They can make our Property, our Freedom's & even our Children 'Disappear'.
    ~Outlaw~

  7. #6
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    Well handled. You held fire due to regard for public safety. Commendable response.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outlaw View Post
    I think you handled it well.-snip-

    I was at a check cashing account waiting to escort the check cashing employees after closing time.
    Am I mis reading this? you were escorting employees of a check cashing business or employees cashing checks at a check cashing business?
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  9. #8
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Am I mis reading this? you were escorting employees of a check cashing business or employees cashing checks at a check cashing business?
    Are we splitting hairs here Treo??

    It was a Check Cashing Business (One of our accounts).
    The business had been robbed on previous occasions.
    The business hired our security company to provide them with 'armed escort services' at their closing time.
    Our job was to 'escort' (guard) the employees of the check cashing business, so that they could close the store and safely walk to their vehicles after work without the risk of being robbed again.
    Fascist's are Magicians...They can make our Property, our Freedom's & even our Children 'Disappear'.
    ~Outlaw~

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Am I mis reading this? you were escorting employees of a check cashing business or employees cashing checks at a check cashing business?
    You find a problem with everything don't you?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outlaw View Post
    Are we splitting hairs here Treo??

    It was a Check Cashing Business (One of our accounts).
    The business had been robbed on previous occasions.
    The business hired our security company to provide them with 'armed escort services' at their closing time.
    Our job was to 'escort' (guard) the employees of the check cashing business, so that they could close the store and safely walk to their vehicles after work without the risk of being robbed again.
    I wasn’t trying to split hairs the reason I asked is because at first it sounded like you escorted someone to the place to cash their checks. Like a courier making the night deposit or something.

    If that was the case then I would say you were wrong for leaving the person you were supposed to be guarding to check a disturbance in the parking lot.

    Then I read it again and got that you were working at a check cashing place and escorting their employees to their cars. In which case a disturbance in the parking lot would be the exact kind of thing for you to check out.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

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