We USA CARRY supporters should be paying special attention to the Zimmerman trial.. - Page 2
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Thread: We USA CARRY supporters should be paying special attention to the Zimmerman trial..

  1. #11
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    I should pay attention? Why? Racism and the garbage in the whitehouse "would like nothing better than having him as a son". Testimony that is all over the place and clearly colored (no pun intended) with what side you are on. Finally--just read the above replies--all over the place on opinions about literally every aspect of the case. I cannot do anything about the decision and will find out about it in due time. I have more important things to worry about in my life than these "public trials" that sound more like a soap opera on TV than they do a real life trial. I have my CC, I know the law in my state, and will use same to defend myself and my family. This case has been discussed ad nauseam and does not change anything in my life or my embrace of 2A and laws that surround its implementation. Thank G-d for SC, where free men can still live under the Constitution and not under the crap we have had to witness in this country under our geek dictator and his minions.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    This whole thing went south when the dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow, and he refused or ignored those instructions.
    Didn't bother to read any after the first sentence above. Your credibility is blown.

    Why do people continue to make this stuff up?

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Thank G-d for SC, where free men can still live under the Constitution and not under the crap we have had to witness in this country under our geek dictator and his minions.
    You must have missed seeing any of the restaurant carry bill action a month or so ago. There are some real buffoons in our state legislature.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.

  5. #14
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    Zimmerman never attacked Martin or threatened him. Martin attacked Zimmerman, knocked him down and got on top of him.

  6. #15
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    Howdy,

    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    776.041
    Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.


    For one thing, across at least two threads now, you continuously insinuate that it is a known "fact" that Zimmerman actively followed Martin after being told he didn't need to, and that Zimmerman was the initial aggressor. There is zero evidence to support either of those conclusions.


    Secondly, for the sake of (a useless, unrelated to anything having to do with Zimmerman) argument, I posted the FL code section that covers conversion from initial aggressor to secondary victim for you above. Where in that code sub-section does it specify specific verbiage that must be uttered for the initial aggressor to be denied by law the right of self defense? If screaming for help for more than 45 seconds while not throwing any blows in retaliation for the beating he was taking isn't a "clear indication to the assailant" that he does not wish to fight, then no words would be any more clear. That's one of the worst red herring arguments I've heard in all this.

    Besides that, the "clear indication" is not a requirement, it's an option. He does not need to make anything clear in any way if he has formed the requisite reasonable belief of great bodily injury or death from the attack the instant before he pulled the trigger.

    For some reason you want Zimmerman to be guilty, even if the law doesn't support such a verdict. It's rather baffling.

    Blues
    Actually what is baffling is that you have stated items as "facts" that are strictly you opinion without any evidence to support your statement and evidence to proves hot opinion is wrong.


    1.) Based on statements from the "real police" that based on where George's vehicle was parked and where the incident took place George was trying to follow Martin.

    2.) Based on George's phone call to the police when he told the dispatcher that Martin was "starting to run" the dispatched asked George if he was following "the suspect" George said "Yes" and the dispatcher said you don't need to do that.

    3.) Marin's friend testified that Martin told her he was not going to run from George because he was out of breath and was tired ( my paraphrasing ).

    She also testified that George was breathing heavily when he asked Martin what he was doing around here ( my paraphrasing ).

    The 3 points I posted above would make an unbiased person believe that in fact George had tried to follow Martin.

    4.). So, how do we know the voice on the 9-1-1 call is George's and that he was trying to end the fight? George is a known and proven liar so how can we believe anything he says?

    Also as I've posted in another thread, why would George be screaming for help AFTER he drew his weapon and was still screaming as he was pulling the trigger.

    Sounds more reasonable that an unarmed 17yo boy would be screaming while a grown man pulled a gun on him. This is just my opinion based on my own life experiences.

    Also, after hearing the screams on the 9-1-1 tape, George's voice on TV, the 'Net, the various recordings of George's voice, etc and the hearing Martin's brother testify on Friday, I tend to believe that the person screaming for help was a teenage boy and not a grown man. Martin was a teenage boy and George is a man.

    5.) Martin gave George a 45 second beating without George fighting back and George only had insignificant scratches that didn't support George's "story"?

    WTF?!?!

    a.) What kind of pansy is Martin? Heck a 6' 2" 200lbs trained MMA fighter (according to Team George anyway without any proof ) should have beating a fat, out of shape, 5' 7.5" 204lb tub of lard half to death with black eyes, busted jaw, missing teeth, etc in a "ground and pound" beating. But instead George only had insignificant injuries. The "real police, the ME, and medical personal that treated George stated that his injuries did NOT match his "story". This isn't my opinion, this is what was testified to in court.

    6.) What kind of pansy is George that he would allow a 5' 11" 158lb 17yo boy to beat him for 45 minutes without fighting back? WTF?!?!?

    Based on 49 years of living if someone is beating me I'm fighting back. PERIOD

    7.) Today we know for a fact Martin was not breaking any laws at the time of the incident. The had made a snack run to the local 7-11 during half time of the NBA All-Stat game.

    So, why, under Florida's SYG Law didn't Martin have the right to stand his ground?

    Today we know for a fact that George was armed with a handgun and was willing to use it to take another humans life if he so desired to do so, why didn't Martin, who was clearly concerned with his safety not have the Right to use whatever force necessary to defend himself?

    I do NOT understand how someone that is unbiased in some way or another would be willing to believe George's story, especially with his background but automatically think Martin is guilty and deserved what he got.

    Pretty simple.

    Paul
    I'm so Liberal that I work at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Regional Airport!

  7. #16
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    Howdy kerb,

    Quote Originally Posted by kerb View Post
    Didn't bother to read any after the first sentence above. Your credibility is blown.

    Why do people continue to make this stuff up?

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Actually, just the opposite is true.

    The recording of the dispatcher telling George not to follow Martin has been all over a thing called the Internet. It was invented by Al Gore. There's also a great invention called google. If you use the 'Net and to to google you will be able to find the call that George made to the police where the dispatcher told George you don't need to do that in responce to George's reply that he was following the "suspect".

    You have lost all credibility.

    Sorry.

    Paul
    I'm so Liberal that I work at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Regional Airport!

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Howdy kerb,



    Actually, just the opposite is true.

    The recording of the dispatcher telling George not to follow Martin has been all over a thing called the Internet. It was invented by Al Gore. There's also a great invention called google. If you use the 'Net and to to google you will be able to find the call that George made to the police where the dispatcher told George you don't need to do that in responce to George's reply that he was following the "suspect".

    You have lost all credibility.

    Sorry.

    Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    a thing called the Internet. It was invented by Al Gore.
    Please note the snipped portion of your post I put in bold and underlined...

    Now... what was that you said about "credibility"?

  9. #18
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    Howdy,

    Another thing to remember about this incident is that all the cops that responded to the incident all knew George to some degree or another.

    They had never seen Martin before.

    Also, they waited days, weeks and even months before they talked to some of the witnesses, like Martin friend-girl.

    Also phone records, which have been presented in court as evidenc clearly shows that Martin was talking to the girl while George was talking to the dispatcher and that he also talked to his Dad's girlfriend's son during this time as well.

    Martin's Dad's girlfriend's son testified that Martin said that someone was following him and that he was scared.

    Paul

    P.S. Why did Martin do what he did instead of calling 9-1-1?

    Simple, he was a stupid kid.
    I'm so Liberal that I work at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Regional Airport!

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kerb View Post
    Didn't bother to read any after the first sentence above. Your credibility is blown.

    Why do people continue to make this stuff up?
    That would be from the 911 recording that is available on the internet and has been played on the media hundreds of times. Please pay attention
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Howdy,
    Doody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Actually what is baffling is that you have stated items as "facts" that are strictly you opinion without any evidence to support your statement and evidence to proves hot opinion is wrong.
    Umm....Huh? I don't have a clue what you're even trying to say. "...evidence to support your statement and evidence to proves hot opinion is wrong" means what exactly? Is English your second or third language?

    Obviously I get that you think I have not documented or otherwise validated my opinion(s), but since you came into all the discussions about the Zimmerman/Martin case more than a year after the bulk of them happened, again, you don't know what you're talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    1.) Based on statements from the "real police" that based on where George's vehicle was parked and where the incident took place George was trying to follow Martin.
    Really? Then you should have no problem documenting what the "real police" said in that regard, because all of the initial cop-on-the-scene reports, as well as Serino's (lead investigator) and Singleton's (second lead investigator) reports have been published on the web since early March of 2012. Ever cracked 'em open? I have, and I've linked to them, cited and quoted from them several times in an honest effort to get at the the truth of the incident, and as the basis for my opinions and/or conclusions. You? Not so much.

    Just on the off-chance that you might actually read those reports, and actually know what you're talking about the next time you fantasize about having a clue, I'm going to do something for you that I don't usually do for anyone - your homework. That site is a repository for all the official documents related to this case that are in the public domain. Now you have zero excuses to ever opine or conjecture about what cops, prosecutors, witnesses or Zimmerman or Martin are known to have said about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    2.) Based on George's phone call to the police when he told the dispatcher that Martin was "starting to run" the dispatched asked George if he was following "the suspect" George said "Yes" and the dispatcher said you don't need to do that.
    Right, and George answered "Okay," and from that point on, there is zero evidence that Zimmerman was doing anything other than looking for an address, or that he saw Martin again before Martin confronted him, as testified to by the friend-girl when she says Martin opened the "conversation" with, "What are you following me for?"

    You really haven't been paying attention to anything in this case, have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    3.) Marin's friend testified that Martin told her he was not going to run from George because he was out of breath and was tired ( my paraphrasing ).
    So now Cheech Marin is part of this case? As nutso as the prosecution has been, it really wouldn't surprise me, but I digress...

    That's not your paraphrasing, that's your fantasizing. Come up with a transcript of her testimony that says anything close to that, and I'll guarantee you that I can find at least two different versions of the same events that she testified to also. She is the one and only proven liar in this whole affair. Her freakin' goiter made more sense than she did!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    She also testified that George was breathing heavily when he asked Martin what he was doing around here ( my paraphrasing ).
    Show us a transcript and I'll take it under advisement. Before posting something up though, might I suggest that you check to see if whatever you find that she said on the stand isn't contradicted by other things she said about the same subject(s) in deposition, or in front of Trayvon's mother in her first interview with the prosecutor for cryin' out loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    The 3 points I posted above would make an unbiased person believe that in fact George had tried to follow Martin.
    Good grief. It is wholly insignificant that GZ "tried" to follow TM. The only question concerning following is when he did it, before or after being told he didn't need to, or both. But no matter what the answer to that question is, even if GZ was tail-gating TM from the moment he saw him, following is neither illegal nor considered aggressive in the eyes of the law. Until you understand what is being scrutinized in the trial, that being the laws surrounding the justifiable use of deadly force, you will remain frustrated with the vast majority of members here who have the ability to distinguish between stupidity and illegality. Very few of us have stood for the premise that getting out of his car was a smart thing to do. His prudence in that regard is not in question in his trial though, only was he within the law at the significant points in time that started with Trayvon saying something to the effect of "What are you following me for?" and ended in Trayvon being shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    4.). So, how do we know the voice on the 9-1-1 call is George's and that he was trying to end the fight? George is a known and proven liar so how can we believe anything he says?
    You don't have to believe GZ. Unless you have some reason to disbelieve the only ear-and-eye witness to the fight though, you're out of gas on that point. Listen carefully to John Good just hours after the events of the night before. Everything he says is completely consistent with Zimmerman's version of events, and though he did try to equivocate the certainty with which he spoke in the interview below at trial, his opinion that it was GZ screaming has not changed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK4kYza_V1w

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Also as I've posted in another thread, why would George be screaming for help AFTER he drew his weapon...
    So now you're b!tch!n' about him waiting until the last possible second before pulling the trigger? This is just getting stupider and stupider.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    ....and was still screaming as he was pulling the trigger.
    Because he was still getting a beat down, and would've much rather someone answered his pleas for help than had to shoot someone maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Also, after hearing the screams on the 9-1-1 tape, George's voice on TV, the 'Net, the various recordings of George's voice, etc and the hearing Martin's brother testify on Friday, I tend to believe that the person screaming for help was a teenage boy and not a grown man. Martin was a teenage boy and George is a man.
    Keep avoiding that ear-and-eye witness. No really, none of us will notice your cognitive dissonance on this point (or several others).

    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Pretty simple.

    Paul
    Yes you are.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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