Wonder how they'll feel Monday. - Page 11
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Thread: Wonder how they'll feel Monday.

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    And this just proves that you don't get it. Maybe Indiana is too conservative for you. If you want people to be prosecuted based on your emotions, please try CA, NY, MA and NJ. Your emotions mean zilch anywhere else.
    You know what's funny, Tricolordad? As vehemently as I disagree with you, you don't see me coming up with totally unsubstantiated explanations as to why you feel the way you feel. Can't say the same about you with regard to me though.

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  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    And this just proves that you don't get it. Maybe Indiana is too conservative for you. If you want people to be prosecuted based on your emotions, please try CA, NY, MA and NJ. Your emotions mean zilch anywhere else.
    There you go speculating about me again. And my state of residence has nothing to do with why I believe GZ murdered TM.

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    Acquitted
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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    It's quite amusing on here how anyone whose opinion is different from those in majority on here is labeled delusional, not in touch with reality, etc. Listen guys, I watched proceedings just like the rest of you did. The fact that I determined Zimmerman to be guilty doesn't mean I wasn't paying attention, am delusional, or anything else. I just happen not to agree with you guys' assessment that the correct verdict was reached. In my opinion, it was the wrong verdict.

    Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk HD
    The problem is that my opinion, right or wrong, is backed by the verdict in a trial by jury. This in itself makes your opinion unnecessary in the grand scheme of things, and the complaining about the result is not just whining, it is trying to stir a racial pot. TM, the "child" you described, was 6'2 and 175. Google it and you can look at the 7-11 cam footage of him buying his skittles. He was NOT the cute little kid in all the photos the MSM plastered everywhere. Regardless what led up to it, when the MMA fighter was doing a ground-and-pound on the hispanic pilsbury dough boy GZ had 2 choices kill or be killed.
    -
    To prove guilt, the persecution needed to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" what happened was murder and not self defense. The Sanford DA knew there was no way to convict, and did not bring charges. This result is why. The race-baiters wanted this public outcry and will use it, as they have obviously used you, to promote and advance their agenda. Did you notice that when POTUS asked the country to stay calm after the verdict, he followed that with another gun control commercial? They knew they would lose the case, right now they are just PO'd that there are no "Rodny King" riots going on so that they can practice using martial law.

  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    We can go back and forth on this for another ten pages, but nothing I say will change anyone's mind....
    That's because what you've said thus far doesn't comport with the facts and evidence of the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    ....and nothing any of you say will change my mind.
    Which is why many, if not most, perhaps even all of the participants in this back and forth with you feel that there's something besides evidence or the rationality of the verdict driving your unjustifiable intransigence in evaluating the case. You don't care that you got some of the evidence wrong. You don't care that of the things you (maybe) got right, they are irrelevant to the fight in which Zimmerman had to decide whether to keep on taking a beating or fire.

    You've said a time or two that you just see things from a different "perspective." That's bunk. We all have the same perspective; we're all outsiders looking in who have to evaluate evidence, testimony and proven facts to the best objective abilities we can muster. When someone ignores the evidence and proven facts in favor of standing defiantly on unsupportable grounds against the facts and evidence, then that is different than "perspective," that falls within the definition of bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    The fact is, you guys see the evidence one way, and I see it a totally different way.
    And this "you guys" stuff is just another way of expressing bias. It's no different than if I said "you people" will never allow Zimmerman a break because he killed a black kid, and even though the jury determined it was justifiable self defense, that's not enough to overcome the one and only variable that would cause you to take a stand against that verdict; the kid was black.

    "Us guys" see the case many different ways. Some of us acknowledge that Zimmerman made a lot of mistakes that night. Some others of "us guys" think that following, getting out of his car, not identifying himself etc. was just normal activity for a concerned citizen just trying to keep his neighborhood safe. I don't see how any of "us guys" who feel one way about those things could possibly be lumped in with "those guys" who feel the other way, unless it's just rank bias that makes up that lump.

    Aside from that though, you say you see the evidence differently than "we" do. You said GZ lied about TM seeing his gun. I proved that he didn't lie, he expressed a perception. Yet I'm willing to bet that you still would say he lied about it. That is refusing to see the evidence, not seeing it differently than others.

    You say GZ lied about Martin being in bushes. I point out that he said bushes sometimes, and it was dark, I don't really know where he came from at other times. That's not a lie. At worst, it's a mistaken impression, and since the incompetent prosecution never proved where Martin was hiding anyway, it's completely, 100% irrelevant where GZ thought he must be hiding. The proven fact is that he was either hiding or he ran around a building and came back to the same area to confront Zimmerman. You are refusing to see the evidence, not simply interpreting it differently than the rest of "us guys."

    You said he lied about Trayvon covering his mouth and nose. The only rationale offered by the prosecution for this being a "lie" was that none of Zimmerman's blood was on Martin's hands, but none of his own blood was on his hands either, because the first cops on the scene ignored protecting the evidence in favor of trying to bring Trayvon back to life. The rain and other environmental influences washed all the blood that presumably should've been on his hands away. You are refusing to see the evidence, not simply interpreting it a different way.

    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Take a vote if you want to. What's it gonna change? GZ is a free man (and I use the term "free" loosely in Zimmerman's case) and TM is still dead. What this verdict, and indeed this discussion show, is just how deeply divided the country is on this issue.
    Actually, and sadly, what it shows is just how divided races are in this country. I have kept the racial "issue" out of everything I've had to say, because I honestly believe that it is not a real issue at all in this case. The blacks who are planning demonstrations and petitions to try to get Holder to file a civil rights case against Zimmerman don't care at all that Zimmerman's whole life has been as un-"racial" as any human being's alive today. They apparently are oblivious to the months-long FBI investigation that turned up exactly zero evidence that race had anything whatsoever to do with the shooting.

    The fact is, this was a run-of-the-mill self defense case. In nearly all self defense cases, you can find mistakes that the shooter made that contributed to the situation getting out of hand, but the law deals with those kinds of factors as well as it can without demanding that anyone be forced by the law to get killed or severely injured just because of simple, though wholly legal, mistakes they made leading up to the confrontation. Such is the evidence in this case. You don't have a different perspective, and you don't see the evidence differently than "we" do, you simply refuse to even scrutinize the evidence and apply the law to it. That's called bias, plain and simple.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #105
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    Putting aside my feelings about the verdict for a moment, I'm hearing chatter about the family of TM planning to file a wrongful death suit against Zimmerman. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Stand Your Ground Law prohibit such lawsuits? Or does it allow the lawsuits, but prohibit any damages from being awarded (and if that's the case, why even bother filing the suit)?

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  7. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Putting aside my feelings about the verdict for a moment, I'm hearing chatter about the family of TM planning to file a wrongful death suit against Zimmerman. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Stand Your Ground Law prohibit such lawsuits? Or does it allow the lawsuits, but prohibit any damages from being awarded (and if that's the case, why even bother filing the suit)?

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    Correct from what I understand but his attorneys would need to clarify this.

    Something was mentioned about this over in legal insurrection website.
    If it doesn't fit, FORCE it! If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway.


  8. Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Putting aside my feelings about the verdict for a moment, I'm hearing chatter about the family of TM planning to file a wrongful death suit against Zimmerman. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Stand Your Ground Law prohibit such lawsuits? Or does it allow the lawsuits, but prohibit any damages from being awarded (and if that's the case, why even bother filing the suit)?

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    From the way it sounded in one report I read, GZ will have to go through certain legal processes to be granted immunity from civil suits. Whereas in some states, such as the one I live in, you're automatically granted immunity as long as you are not found guilty of any crimes.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndeyHall View Post
    From the way it sounded in one report I read, GZ will have to go through certain legal processes to be granted immunity from civil suits. Whereas in some states, such as the one I live in, you're automatically granted immunity as long as you are not found guilty of any crimes.
    If they had had a hearing on it before this trial and he was found to have been covered, even this trial would have been quashed. As it is, he can now still ask for the hearing to prevent a civil case. Or if that is denied by the hearing, then in the civil case, the losing party who filed the case can be forced to pay all legal costs, and lost wages. If GZ were to lose in a civil case, he still could appeal it higher as he has the trial record in the criminal case to stand on.
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  10. #109
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    A lawsuit found to be unjustified could cause the parents a of of money. From Florida State Statutes:
    .
    776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
    .
    (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
    .
    (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
    .
    (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
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  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    A lawsuit found to be unjustified could cause the parents a of of money. From Florida State Statutes:
    .
    776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
    .
    (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
    .
    (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
    .
    (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
    In his post-trial interview, the Defense Councel stated that if any further charges were brought, civil or civil rights, he would be filing for that immunity.

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