Homeowner charged with attempted murder. - Page 11
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Thread: Homeowner charged with attempted murder.

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Stealing $400 worth of tires is a felony in Washington??? Can you point me to that section of the Washington Penal Code?
    WA RCW 9A.16.050 (2)
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  3. #102
    ezkl2230 Guest
    I'm still trying to figure out how people are concluding that the homeowner went looking for trouble. The report says that the homeowner heard his dog making noise and went to check it out, just like any of us would have done. And like most of us would have done at 1:45 AM, we would have had our firearms with us on the off chance that something bad was actually happening. Why? Because that's what we do. There is nothing to indicate that this homeowner was some sort of a vigilante looking to bust a cap the first chance he got, and we certainly don't call the police every time our dog makes noise in the middle of the night.

    How is this looking for trouble?

    Way to jump to conclusions.

  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Deadly force may not be used in ANY state to protect property (except in the case of arson), only lives and to prevent SERIOUS bodily injury. I know of no state that permits deadly force (even by LE) to protect property.
    Don't be absurd. "Castle" laws technically permit you to protect property, under the premise that anyone invading your property would probably do you harm.
    Chief

  5. #104
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Deadly force may not be used in ANY state to protect property (except in the case of arson), only lives and to prevent SERIOUS bodily injury. I know of no state that permits deadly force (even by LE) to protect property.
    Michigan MCL 750.224f:

    (6) As used in subsection (2), “specified felony” means a felony in which 1 or more of the following circumstances exist:
    (i) An element of that felony is the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, or that by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.
    2006 PA 311, presumption that an individual breaking and entering intends to do great bodily harm or kill:

    Sec. 1. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.
    (b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).
    MI MCL 768.21c expands Castle to the "curtilage" of a dwelling (the property surrounding the dwelling):

    768.21c Use of deadly force by individual in own dwelling; "dwelling" defined.Sec. 21c.
    (1) In cases in which section 2 of the self-defense act does not apply, the common law of this state applies except that the duty to retreat before using deadly force is not required if an individual is in his or her own dwelling or within the curtilage of that dwelling.
    Finally, Michigan has a fleeing felon rule:

    The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of a fleeing felon isjustifiable where the following three circumstances are present: (1) the
    evidence must show that a felony actually occurred, (2) the fleeing suspect
    against whom force was used must be the person who committed the felony,
    and (3) the use of deadly force must have been "necessary" to ensure the
    apprehension of the felon. People v Hampton, 194 Mich App 593, 596-597; 487 NW2d 843 (1992).
    You may be illegally entering my property to steal, but MI law presumes that your presence on my property constitutes a threat of great bodily injury, rape or death, and I can deal with you accordingly - ANYWHERE ON MY PROPERTY. It also gives me the right to use force up to and including deadly force if your presence on my property can be construed as a threat of force against my property. Michigan law also gives me the right to shoot your felonious backside to keep you from fleeing the scene of the felony. Now, am I going to automatically take advantage of these rights? Not if I can help it. But if you give me any reason at all to think that your presence on my property constitutes a threat against my family, me, or my property, the law gives me the right to use force up to and including deadly force with no duty to retreat to protect my property and family AND the legal presumption that my shoot was righteous.

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    Michigan MCL 750.224f.
    The crime did not happen in MI, though you do show how some people's posts are not well researched.
    Chief

  7. #106
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    The crime did not happen in MI, though you do show how some people's posts are not well researched.
    Yup, I know. My previous posts regarding this incident were based on LA law (the actual LAlaw - not the TV show! ). The person to whom I responded with this particular post made the remark that no state allows the use of force to protect property; I simply demonstrated that MI is one state that DOES allow the use of force to protect property when the crime is a felony.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    The crime did not happen in MI, though you do show how some people's posts are not well researched.
    Evidently my post has generated a lot of derision, so let me clarify. If you read my statement closely, you will see that I said "I do not know of any state etc." Had I said "There are no states etc." then the criticism that I had not researched the issue before posting would have been correct. But to say that I had not researched what I know is one that nobody can make with any validity. Nobody by I myself is aware of everything that I know. Since the folks who instead of simply stating their examples felt the need to state that I had not researched, I will state that it is THEY who did not do their research, because nobody researched what I knew prior to their inaccurate evaluations of my statement.

    That having been said, I am glad of the education that has been provided on this site. I have been in Michigan only twice in my life, and have survived both instances. It is very enlightening to learn that in Michigan a person who jumps over a fence onto someone's property and attempts to steal an automobile tire is subject to being shot and killed for this heinous crime. I do not intend to steal anything from anyone, but I will stay out of Michigan just to insure that I am not shot for any other act that my be considered punishable by death at the hands of the offended party.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Evidently my post has generated a lot of derision, so let me clarify. If you read my statement closely, you will see that I said "I do not know of any state etc." Had I said "There are no states etc." then the criticism that I had not researched the issue before posting would have been correct. But to say that I had not researched what I know is one that nobody can make with any validity. Nobody by I myself is aware of everything that I know. Since the folks who instead of simply stating their examples felt the need to state that I had not researched, I will state that it is THEY who did not do their research, because nobody researched what I knew prior to their inaccurate evaluations of my statement.

    That having been said, I am glad of the education that has been provided on this site. I have been in Michigan only twice in my life, and have survived both instances. It is very enlightening to learn that in Michigan a person who jumps over a fence onto someone's property and attempts to steal an automobile tire is subject to being shot and killed for this heinous crime. I do not intend to steal anything from anyone, but I will stay out of Michigan just to insure that I am not shot for any other act that my be considered punishable by death at the hands of the offended party.
    I think after two months of no replies no one really cares anymore what you did or did not research or where you intend to visit...

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    I think after two months of no replies no one really cares anymore what you did or did not research or where you intend to visit...

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    Ah yes, the old "At this point, what difference does it make?" comeback. I believe a certain disreputable Secretary of State made the same statement with reference to misdeeds in the Benghazi cover-up. I guess I should feel complimented that rather than admitting having failed to accurately comprehend my original statement which invited correction on the merits of the issue, you have regressed to personal attacks.

  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Evidently my post has generated a lot of derision, so let me clarify. If you read my statement closely, you will see that I said "I do not know of any state etc." Had I said "There are no states etc." then the criticism that I had not researched the issue before posting would have been correct. But to say that I had not researched what I know is one that nobody can make with any validity. Nobody by I myself is aware of everything that I know. Since the folks who instead of simply stating their examples felt the need to state that I had not researched, I will state that it is THEY who did not do their research, because nobody researched what I knew prior to their inaccurate evaluations of my statement.

    That having been said, I am glad of the education that has been provided on this site. I have been in Michigan only twice in my life, and have survived both instances. It is very enlightening to learn that in Michigan a person who jumps over a fence onto someone's property and attempts to steal an automobile tire is subject to being shot and killed for this heinous crime. I do not intend to steal anything from anyone, but I will stay out of Michigan just to insure that I am not shot for any other act that my be considered punishable by death at the hands of the offended party.
    Firefighterchen, I care and will respond.

    gmforsythe: Stay out of PA, TX, AZ, and many other states that protect homeowners from villainous thieves if you are scared someone will mistake you for one.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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