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Thread: Homeowner charged with attempted murder.

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Evidently my post has generated a lot of derision, so let me clarify. If you read my statement closely, you will see that I said "I do not know of any state etc." Had I said "There are no states etc." then the criticism that I had not researched the issue before posting would have been correct.
    Umm....Really? This is how you started the post to which you refer:

    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Deadly force may not be used in ANY state to protect property (except in the case of arson), only lives and to prevent SERIOUS bodily injury.
    So the criticism that you had (and probably still have) not researched the issue before posting is correct, correct? In reality, your claim now, two months later, that you didn't say anything approaching "there are no states etc." is exactly as true as the original statement that got you some "derision" from the knowledgeable folks here at USA Carry. That is to say that there is zero truth to either statement. The fact that the next line of that post said something about you "knowing of no state" etc. was written to emphasize the previous lines, not as a disclaimer that they may not have been accurate. You can claim such if you want to, but we're all pretty well adept at reading and understanding the English language, as well as being fairly well-versed in the most rudimentary provisions of self-defense laws in our respective states. Fact is, you screwed the pooch with the above statement. You should just accept that people sometimes react negatively to such blatant ignorance and quit whining about it two months later.

    Truth-challenged much?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    But to say that I had not researched what I know is one that nobody can make with any validity. Nobody by I myself is aware of everything that I know. Since the folks who instead of simply stating their examples felt the need to state that I had not researched, I will state that it is THEY who did not do their research, because nobody researched what I knew prior to their inaccurate evaluations of my statement.
    Nobody had to "research" what you "knew," because your post revealed unequivocally that you knew nothing about the subject of which you spoke two months ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    That having been said, I am glad of the education that has been provided on this site. I have been in Michigan only twice in my life, and have survived both instances. It is very enlightening to learn that in Michigan a person who jumps over a fence onto someone's property and attempts to steal an automobile tire is subject to being shot and killed for this heinous crime. I do not intend to steal anything from anyone, but I will stay out of Michigan just to insure that I am not shot for any other act that my be considered punishable by death at the hands of the offended party.
    Great, then stay out of Alabama too, and the three states that wolf_fire mentioned, as well as the 22 other states that I mentioned in Post #95 that have Castle Doctrine laws on the books that protect the rights of property owners/legal occupiers to protect their property with deadly force through the legal presumption of a threat towards anyone who breaks in. And in some of those states, simple trespass can trigger the legal presumption of a threat too.

    So good, now you've narrowed your travel plans down to 24 potential states (probably fewer than that, because the absence of a Castle Doctrine law does not necessarily preclude the presence of strong property and self-defense laws). It seems you have a ton of homework to do before you can step out of your own front door, or certainly before you can travel to any other state in good conscience, because it might just be a state that empowers its citizens to protect what is theirs from the criminal element by any means necessary. Bunch o' savages that we are here in Bamania and PA and TX and the other states that we know for sure about, you should protect your conscience forthwith and forevermore from giving your tourism dollars to us for having such barbaric laws on the books.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Deadly force may not be used in ANY state to protect property (except in the case of arson), only lives and to prevent SERIOUS bodily injury. I know of no state that permits deadly force (even by LE) to protect property.
    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    ...you will see that I said "I do not know of any state etc."

    Had I said "There are no states etc." ...
    Just to reiterate the complete lie from gm, yes you indeed did say there are no states.

    You also said," you know of no state," not that "you do not know of any state." Completely different statements, one claiming knowledge the other claiming ignorance, both wrong none the less.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    Ah yes, the old "At this point, what difference does it make?" comeback. I believe a certain disreputable Secretary of State made the same statement with reference to misdeeds in the Benghazi cover-up. I guess I should feel complimented that rather than admitting having failed to accurately comprehend my original statement which invited correction on the merits of the issue, you have regressed to personal attacks.
    Oh don't get me wrong, there definitely was a difference that had been made all ready, which you gave two months in hopes those of us would forget. Your actions are not much different than your beloved Secretary, whom will always point the finger no matter how inept you prove yourself to be. Let's not forget the most important point of recent, which sheds light on your credibility, that point being you're a liar.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Umm....Really? This is how you started the post to which you refer:



    So the criticism that you had (and probably still have) not researched the issue before posting is correct, correct? In reality, your claim now, two months later, that you didn't say anything approaching "there are no states etc." is exactly as true as the original statement that got you some "derision" from the knowledgeable folks here at USA Carry. That is to say that there is zero truth to either statement. The fact that the next line of that post said something about you "knowing of no state" etc. was written to emphasize the previous lines, not as a disclaimer that they may not have been accurate. You can claim such if you want to, but we're all pretty well adept at reading and understanding the English language, as well as being fairly well-versed in the most rudimentary provisions of self-defense laws in our respective states. Fact is, you screwed the pooch with the above statement. You should just accept that people sometimes react negatively to such blatant ignorance and quit whining about it two months later.

    Truth-challenged much?



    Nobody had to "research" what you "knew," because your post revealed unequivocally that you knew nothing about the subject of which you spoke two months ago.



    Great, then stay out of Alabama too, and the three states that wolf_fire mentioned, as well as the 22 other states that I mentioned in Post #95 that have Castle Doctrine laws on the books that protect the rights of property owners/legal occupiers to protect their property with deadly force through the legal presumption of a threat towards anyone who breaks in. And in some of those states, simple trespass can trigger the legal presumption of a threat too.

    So good, now you've narrowed your travel plans down to 24 potential states (probably fewer than that, because the absence of a Castle Doctrine law does not necessarily preclude the presence of strong property and self-defense laws). It seems you have a ton of homework to do before you can step out of your own front door, or certainly before you can travel to any other state in good conscience, because it might just be a state that empowers its citizens to protect what is theirs from the criminal element by any means necessary. Bunch o' savages that we are here in Bamania and PA and TX and the other states that we know for sure about, you should protect your conscience forthwith and forevermore from giving your tourism dollars to us for having such barbaric laws on the books.

    Blues
    Add the Northwest as well.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #114
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    I do not intend to steal anything from anyone, but I will stay out of Michigan just to insure that I am not shot for any other act that my be considered punishable by death at the hands of the offended party.
    Thank you. We have enough home-grown trolls as it is. We're in no particular hurry to begin importing more.

    EDITED

    And BTW, the fact that you and millions of other tourists made it out of Michigan alive should tell you how eager we are to drop the hammer on someone. Find somewhere else to peddle your trash.

  6. #115
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    So should we start a pool on how many months it will be before gmforsythe comes back to tell us he didn't say what he did say in this exchange?

    1.5 months is my WAG.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    So should we start a pool on how many months it will be before gmforsythe comes back to tell us he didn't say what he did say in this exchange?

    1.5 months is my WAG.

    Blues
    2.3 months

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. OK, guys....I apologize for offending y'all. I read over the comments on this thread and started marking all the comments I appreciated. Among the positive comments that educated me and were non-offensive, were whodat2710, Firefighterchen, Bc1, kelcarry, cluznar obwana1, and BlueStringer. Some of these later got pissed at me, and I apologize. I was not trying to get into a pissing contest with anyone. I agree that my statements about the laws contained errors of interpretation. I do hope that I can learn from all you out there who are evidently much more versed in the laws than I am. All I had to go on was what I was taught in the SC, TX and NY training I went through. The instructors there gave me the general rule that you don't use deadly force to protect property. I see now that some states allow it. That being said, after seeing what Zimmerman went through I would be very nervous using my weapon if I or someone else were not physically threatened with grave bodily harm or death. There are just too many liberals out there on juries looking to put responsible gun owners in jail or bankruptcy court.

    GM Forsythe

  9. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    OK, guys....I apologize for offending y'all. I read over the comments on this thread and started marking all the comments I appreciated. Among the positive comments that educated me and were non-offensive, were whodat2710, Firefighterchen, Bc1, kelcarry, cluznar obwana1, and BlueStringer. Some of these later got pissed at me, and I apologize. I was not trying to get into a pissing contest with anyone. I agree that my statements about the laws contained errors of interpretation. I do hope that I can learn from all you out there who are evidently much more versed in the laws than I am. All I had to go on was what I was taught in the SC, TX and NY training I went through. The instructors there gave me the general rule that you don't use deadly force to protect property. I see now that some states allow it. That being said, after seeing what Zimmerman went through I would be very nervous using my weapon if I or someone else were not physically threatened with grave bodily harm or death. There are just too many liberals out there on juries looking to put responsible gun owners in jail or bankruptcy court.

    GM Forsythe
    Castle Doctrine has been in law in TX since 2007. It gives a homeowner, car owner, or business owner the right to use deadly force to protect their home, car, or business, respectively. What were you taught in your training while you were in TX, or did being in NY make you forget your right to life and liberty and pursuit of happiness?

    I mostly write this in jest, because you used TX and NY in the same sentence with firearms training, and it struck me as odd. But seriously, there are many states that have some form of castle law doctrine in place, and some of the states that do not have the law on the law books, rule as if they do.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  10. First off, all three states where I was trained (let's not forget SC) and hold licenses emphasized that although they are Castle Doctrine states, you can be put into a world of hurt if you do not exhaust other methods to protect your property first. And all three states (in SC, the course was taught by a LEO) they told us NOT to use deadly force to protect property. I know I'm going to get a lot of flames for stating this, but that is what I was taught, and I'm only repeating it, not imagining it.

    Yes, the training in TX and NY were totally different. NY training was a joke. TX and SC definitely gave better training!!

  11. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmforsythe View Post
    I do hope that I can learn from all you out there who are evidently much more versed in the laws than I am. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, I just read rather than believing what ANYONE tells me. All I had to go on was what I was taught in the SC, TX and NY training I went through. The instructors there gave me the general rule that you don't use deadly force to protect property. I live in SC, and we have both Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground laws. Your instructors were misinformed or misunderstood; see my first comment. I see now that some states allow it. That being said, after seeing what Zimmerman went through I would be very nervous using my weapon if I or someone else were not physically threatened with grave bodily harm or death. There are just too many liberals out there on juries looking to put responsible gun owners in jail or bankruptcy court.

    GM Forsythe
    Unfortunately those liberals on the juries have to follow the rule of law. Even with the anti-gun crowd breathing down their necks and it being an unreasonably high profile case, they still found him innocent, as they should. Know your state laws, read up on the laws of other states you frequent if you travel, and know that there are lawyers on both sides of the every case trying to twist the law to serve their client. If you need clarification on something be careful who you ask.
    Chief

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