Latest Stand Your Ground in SC
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Thread: Latest Stand Your Ground in SC

  1. #1
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    Latest Stand Your Ground in SC

    Forgive me for not knowing how to get article into forum but in the 8/19 issue of the Post & Courier in Charleston SC, the top article in their Section B-The South, they highlight the story of a man who mistakenly killed a bystander and is now using the argument of self defense and stand your ground. His attorney makes the most outlandish statements such as, "he (the innocent bystander) simply ended up being in the wrong place at the wrong time" and "all that matters is that Scott(the shooter) felt his life was in jeopardy". Not leaving you with many details but these comments from the shooter's lawyer just make me shake my head. Hope someone out there can get this into the forum--very interesting comments that should provoke good and meaningful replies.

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  3. #2
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    Here ya go. Interesting story.

    Stand Your Ground faces test in S.C.


    By
    JOHN MONK
    [email protected]
    Posted: August 19, 2013


    Shannon Scott argues he should not be prosecuted for shooting and killing an unarmed Keenan High School basketball player. In his Stand Your Ground argument in a Richland County courtroom last week, Scott and his attorney, Todd Rutherford, said Scott fired his weapon from his front yard to protect his daughter, who was being chased by people trying to hurt her.

    It’s terrible, but Darrell Niles, a 17-year-old innocent bystander, just got in the way, they said.

    “He simply ended up being in the wrong place at the wrong time,” Rutherford said....

    ....snip....

    The real villains in this case, Rutherford said, are the carload of teens that followed Scott’s daughter and her friends home from a club. They should be charged with “felony murder,” a charge that means that they caused Niles’ death, even though Scott was the one who put the bullet in his head, Rutherford said.

    That is the same principle applied in cases in which a store owner who shoots and mistakenly kills a bystander during an armed robbery, Rutherford said.

    The store owner isn’t charged with the bystander’s murder, but the robber is, Rutherford said....

    More at the link.

    I posted the theory of the defense attorney's case because I find it plausible. A difficult defense to successfully put forth, but the analogy to a store robbery/innocent bystander shooting seems apropos to me. Store clerks and/or owners are not required to have any more training or demonstrated marksmanship skills than those protecting themselves, their families, and their property in SC, are they?

    I don't know....This could become one to watch. Brings up some interesting issues to be sure.

    Blues

    ETA: kelcarry, for some reason I couldn't get the page I found the story on to load any comments. Might be because the link I used was in a bunch of keyword search results, and not the original URL of the story. Not sure, but if someone wants to read the comments section, you'll have to have better search "foo" than I do.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  4. #3
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    Hey Blues: Thanks for the article. My problem is that I find a big difference between being a store clerk in a confined store space where clear imminent danger can be shown and proven vs a father who runs out on his lawn and sees his daughter being chased and he fires into the crowd----where the heck is the imminent danger and how can anyone possibly say that he had every right to just "fire away" based on a potential situation that was more in his mindset than in actuality. In other words if my wife is accosted or even pushed in a crowd, I have every right to just pull out a gun and fire away--ridiculous--then again it is my opinion and we will see what the courts have to say---personally he is toast as far as I am concerned. What he is guilty of is another story--probably negligent homicide. Good bye Mr. Scott.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Blues: Thanks for the article. My problem is that I find a big difference between being a store clerk in a confined store space where clear imminent danger can be shown and proven vs a father who runs out on his lawn and sees his daughter being chased and he fires into the crowd----where the heck is the imminent danger and how can anyone possibly say that he had every right to just "fire away" based on a potential situation that was more in his mindset than in actuality. In other words if my wife is accosted or even pushed in a crowd, I have every right to just pull out a gun and fire away--ridiculous--then again it is my opinion and we will see what the courts have to say---personally he is toast as far as I am concerned. What he is guilty of is another story--probably negligent homicide. Good bye Mr. Scott.
    I get the way you're seeing it, really I do. And I don't flat-out disagree with you. In fact, I *lean* towards your point of view, but, as always, there are a lot of details left out of the story as-covered by a fairly incompetent media when it comes to deadly force issues.

    I got interrupted and haven't read the whole article yet, but I think it said that the people who were following Scott's daughter were in a car, and the threat he perceived was a drive-by. Now, I have no idea if the available facts would support that contention or not, but if they do, then I think that has the potential to show a valid analogy between the drive-by-shoot-miss-and-hit-an-innocent-bystander and the same results inside the store.

    There are a ton of circumstances that could come to light that would make me conclusively condemn the shooting as illegitimate. I just thought also though, that the attorney's strategy was an interesting one from a legal POV. We'll see. I suspect you're right though. Dude's gonna fry on one level of charges or another.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #5
    First thing I was taught was gun safety. Then if the gun comes out I'm looking at target and behind the target for any potential collateral damage. I would have to see some kind of imminent danger or dad goes to jail. Probably for negligent homicide or manslaughter. I leave the details to our law enforcement and law members but I'd say it looks REALLY bad for dad. Are there witnesses that saw the car boys pointing a gun at her? That could be a deal maker for the dad. Then the "charge those in the car" argument makes some real sense. lacking that kind of backup dad is done. Tragic anyway it is painted. Lot to think about there.
    Typos are for the entertainment of the reader. Don't let it go to your head!

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by farsidefan1 View Post
    First thing I was taught was gun safety. Then if the gun comes out I'm looking at target and behind the target for any potential collateral damage.
    Fair point. If he was in his yard, on his property who is to say he has had training? I could not access the article, but IMHO, based on the facts presented above he should not face criminal charges, but is most definitely liable in a civil suit and will pay dearly.
    Chief

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by farsidefan1 View Post
    First thing I was taught was gun safety. Then if the gun comes out I'm looking at target and behind the target for any potential collateral damage. I would have to see some kind of imminent danger or dad goes to jail. Probably for negligent homicide or manslaughter. I leave the details to our law enforcement and law members but I'd say it looks REALLY bad for dad. Are there witnesses that saw the car boys pointing a gun at her? That could be a deal maker for the dad. Then the "charge those in the car" argument makes some real sense. lacking that kind of backup dad is done. Tragic anyway it is painted. Lot to think about there.
    This is true except if you are a New York City Police Officer. They are able to miss and hit innocent victims at will. NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Fair point. If he was in his yard, on his property who is to say he has had training? I could not access the article, but IMHO, based on the facts presented above he should not face criminal charges, but is most definitely liable in a civil suit and will pay dearly.
    Not sure what's up with that newspaper's website. It took like five searches even knowing both the shooter's and the deceased's names to find that article (using keywords other than their names), but anyway, looks like the link from the search results had a self-destruct bug in it.

    Here's what looks to be the same article from the same writer, but on another site and posted three days prior to the previous link I found. Got that one off a regular web search (StartPage), and I'm pretty sure it's just a semi-permanent link.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  10. #9
    if he had hit/killed one of the actual attackers, i can see stand your ground since it was in protection of his daughter, but not a bystander.

  11. #10
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    Failed the basic test of firing your gun.

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