Get involved or mind your own?
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Thread: Get involved or mind your own?

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Get involved or mind your own?

    Suppose you witness a crime in progress.

    Some woman in a dark alley getting assaulted. Guy getting the crap beat out of him on the ground by a bunch of thugs.

    You're carrying. To what extent can you get involved?

    If you yell, "Hey! Stop that!" and they turn their attack towards you, thereby putting you in imminent danger, is that legal justification to brandish?

  2.   
  3. #2
    Not in FL.

  4. #3
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    You need to know the laws

    If the act is a forceable felony and grievous injury or death is the logical outcome...at that point it will become a judgement call on the part of the responder. I would yell out something like "I've already dialed 911" and see if there is a change in response of the attackers. If they press on, and it is a felony in progress, I would do every thing in my power to get their attention and try to save the victim. I am not very keen on shooting an unarmed opponent. I would not brandish unless threatened with a lethal threat. The perp would probably not make it 5 feet off the scene in that case.
    FESTUS
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  5. #4
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    Call 911, then do something to get their attention as festus said. Maybe blow a car horn or something and try to drive them away; if they turn on you, then use force. If the State Attorney wants to press charges against me for helping the victim of a violent crime in progress, then let's go for it. I'll be happy to go on a sensationalist news show and make my case. Maybe that old bat Nancy Grace is having a slow week.
    Silent Running, by Mike and the Mechanics

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomsAdvocate View Post
    Not in FL.
    Why not? If they start running toward you and you draw and aim at the perps without firing a shot, and they stop and run away, why would that not be justifiable? You stopped an attack against yourself that would have taken place had you not aimed the gun, and nobody got hurt.
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  7. #6
    Texas Penal code.


    Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:

    (1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and

    (2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  8. #7
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    If you yell, "Hey! Stop that!" and they turn their attack towards you, thereby putting you in imminent danger, is that legal justification to brandish?
    If the attack you witnessed was a threat of severe bodily harm or death, you have a legal justification not only to brandish (legally, I don't think this would be brandish) but to shoot the perpetrators. Obviously if they come after you the same would be true.
    Maybejim

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    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomsAdvocate View Post
    Not in FL.
    does FL still have the no self defense laws?

    A friend of mine in the 80's was brought up on attempted murder charges because he was being attacked, defended himself, & put the guy in a hospital in very critical condition ( he threw his shifter knob @ the guy & it stuck in his head) They said if he had time to unscrew the shifter knob, he had time to get away. Jim said there were 3 of them circling his car w/ weapons. He really didn't have a clean getaway, & would have had to run someone over, which would have led to a similar ending. Jim served a few years.
    Last edited by mot mayhem; 01-07-2009 at 11:55 AM.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf". ~George Orwell / Rudyard Kipling

  10. #9
    wolfhunter Guest
    Florida no longer requires a retreat.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Why not? If they start running toward you and you draw and aim at the perps without firing a shot, and they stop and run away, why would that not be justifiable? You stopped an attack against yourself that would have taken place had you not aimed the gun, and nobody got hurt.
    Well, according to Gutmacher:

    Improper exhibition of a firearm is (FS 790.10) a first degree misdemeanor. It occurs when any person carrying a [...]firearm exhibits it to others in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner -- unless in necessary self-defense
    .

    Page 187:
    ...the only time you can use a firearm [...] in self defense is when it is used to stop or prevent a 'forcible felony'. That doesn't mean necessarily firing the weapon -- pointing it may also constitute use....
    Page 225 under the use and display of a weapon:
    the display of a weapon, without its discharge, is considered the use of 'non-deadly force'.
    you have the right to use any reasonable 'non-deadly force' against a misdemeanor.
    BUT, you have to get a jury to say you acted 'reasonably'. If you are facing a mandatory 3 year prison sentence for aggravated assault the jury determination of 'reasonable' is critical (or you automatically go to prison.)

    Aggravated assault (FS 775.087(2)) is simply a normal assault that includes a 'deadly weapon'. Pointing a gun at someone is by definition aggravated assault, and is punishable by a mandatory 3 year sentence.

    So, I guess it all depends on the jury...if you want to chance it. It would also depend on if the person(s) you pointed it at presses charges.
    Last edited by FreedomsAdvocate; 01-06-2009 at 12:09 AM.
    - FreedomsAdvocate
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