OK, You have a CCW. When NOT to use it? - Page 5
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Thread: OK, You have a CCW. When NOT to use it?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    South Carolina/Charleston

    Road Rage and Weapons

    Just yesterday in SC a motorist was cut off on the road and he gave the inconsiderate motorist a one finger salute. The inconsiderate motorist then proceeded to point a loaded, laser equipped 40 cal pistol in reponse to the one finger salute. He was arrested and will face justice. The article, at this point, did not say if the motorist with the pistol had a CCWP or even if he got out of the car to point it at the one finger saluting motorist. In SC it is very easy to get a CCWP--you pay your money, take a course, do not act like a moron, pass a background check and wallah--you get a permit in about 1-2 months. There are currently about 100,000 CCWPs in SC; thats a lot of people in a small state. Based on the above story prudent action by me will be to ignore any and all motoring idiots and their actions, particularly since I am a CCWP holder and do carry a pistol in the car. What I do not need is to one finger someone like the gun-toting idiot in the above story and then find myself in a confrontation THAT I STARTED. I read these incidents in the paper and keep a mental note for myself based on my overriding sense of responsibility being allowed to carry a weapon.

  3. #42
    One of the things my martial arts instructor, years ago, said has always stuck with me: "You got a black belt, you know how to fight, the real warrior learns how to AVOID fights". So, I substitute "gun" for "black belt" and follow that creed. So, a BG really has to be coming on strong, with a weapon, before I even consider going for the gun. And I'm confident that if I go for it, I can produce it in firing position VERY fast. Train, train, train!! My 2 cents.

  4. #43
    Tactical Shooting skills are a perfect fit for CCW. In fact, the belief that tactical shooting is just advancing, or retreating from an assailant is only part of the picture.

    The example stated above was letting a retreating person go. I have news for you, a person can retreat and still be a threat. He can be shooting as he retreats, he can be headed for a third person whom he intends to do harm. Let me give you my description of Tactical Shooting.

    Tactical Shooting is the defensive or preemptive use of a rifle, pistol, shotgun, through the use of cover and concealment,movement and tactics. While under stress, still making combat effective hits to neutralize a threat, or remove that threats will to fight.

    I have paraphrased this from my Tactical Firearms course I teach Police Officers. If you get in a shooting, I have been there, one thing that is important is movement. It can save your life, we depend on it more than marksmanship. Use of cover and concealment, and knowing the difference between the two are part of tactical shooting. This, along with other factors, such as if I take action will I make the problem worst, or better? Should factor, along with tactics, into your decision.

    My first concern will always be regarding being a good witness. Having said that, too many of these creeps kill people when they don't have too. You should consider, do I have some cover, a clear shot? Who is with me, will I place them in danger? If I hit or miss, will my rounds go safely down range?

    Some one stated that retreating from a bat, or knife is a time to back off. Maybe, but I have seen a lot of people who have been bludgeoned to death. Let me give you food for thought. If you back off from someone with a knife, make sure you back off at least 60 feet. At twenty one feet, a person armed with a knife can cover that distance in 2.5 seconds. We are not talking about a trained athlete. It takes a trained police officer on average of 2.5 seconds to clear his holster. Translation, which means he hasn't gotten it on target yet. The action, is always faster than the reaction, and distance is the only way to defeat action. It is what we call the "Reactionary Distance". Ladies and Gents, the tie goes to the person with the knife.

    As a firearms instructor, defensive tactics instructor, I find that most CCW holders, and most Cops,are in need of some serious training. Too many people think that the skills they possess are enough, and don't know enough about the mental state, skills, tactics of the crooks. FBI studies show from interviews with bad guys who have shot, or killed police officers that on average they practice two or more time a month with there firearms. Most officers, except for SWAT, Narcotics, and a few other specialized units only shoot during qualification once or twice a year. News flash, the distances that officers are engaged and the number of assailants are basically the same for civilians. That's up close and personal, and two or more bad guys. How many of you train on a regular basis to deal with 2 or more assailants?

    If you are not burning two to three hundred rounds a month, doing dry fire every day, you are missing the boat. If your firearms training is not designed to meet your needs, such as practice which is practical. For instance, practicing firing from a vehicle while drawing from your concealed carry. Using a flashlight while shooting, like you might in you home. Practice from kneeling, prone, remember cover might be a curb on a street. Working on your tactical reloading, while moving and keeping your eye on the threat. No, you don't have to be a special forces guy, or Swat guy, but you have to practice like you plan to play in the game.

    You will conduct yourself in a time of stress, as you practiced. We learned this the hard way! Police officers have been found shot to death with a pocket full of brass. They where picking up brass, instead of watching the crook, reloading, or seeking cover. Why, because every time they practiced, the range officer always yelled at them to pick up the brass after every facing! It was the way he trained, and because if was faulty, it was the way he died.

    If I seem passionate about this, I am. I have no intention of having anybody get hurt because they don't have the facts. God Bless each and every CCW person in this wonderful country, but we have to do a better job. That goes for firearms instructors, and people who carry. Standing in front of a target and shooting 10 rings are good for the ego, great for target shooting! When the targets are shooting back, and the pucker factor hits the top of the pucker gauge, you need realistic tactical training. Which will give you the edge when you decided it is time to clear leather.

    We also have a duty to others, what about an "Active Shooter" situation at the Mall? Static practice won't take care of that. Tactical shooting practice will give you an edge.

    I am not the smartest man in the room, by any stretch. I am a Cop, 27 plus years. I train cops and civilians to use firearms, defensive tactics, and teach Concealed Carry Classes. I hate theory, I only go with what I know works! I want the bad guy to take the fall, not the good guy. So lets prepare for the worst, and pray that it never happens. But if it does happen, woe be unto those!

    Black Dragon Personal Protection/Firearms Training/Unarmed Combat

  5. #44

    Amen to that, brother. I have previously admitted to carrying for years with no formal tactical training. After taking some serious training, one thought was "holy sh#t, I've been a sitting duck all these years"! My wife wanted to carry and I made sure she got trained up, also. We do shoot several times a month and much more training is in the offing. I almost hate to say this (because I'm a firm 2nd amendment kind of guy), but we got scads of civilians carrying with little or no training at all. I'm afraid it's gonna be a recipe for disaster for some. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not putting myself out there as some freakin' ninja, but this is serious, serious business and I'm not sure we all appreciate that. I'm starting to...

  6. I wholeheartedly agree with that! I've just recently started to carry, and just last week I took an advanced carry course.
    I have to say that it was worth absolutely every penny and minute I spent on those 2 full days of training!
    I'm already planning another advanced course-I never really understood what I didn't know.
    I owe it to my family,friends and myself to be trained and aware of any scenario that may occur.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Cabarrus County NC
    Reading this post reminds me of when I took the CCW class back in 1996. At the end of the class I wasn't sure if I was scared more of the bad guys or some that were taking the class with me. During oral comments on videos ect. I was hearing "I'd unload my clip and reach the other if he did that to me". Fact is when I took my first advanced class after getting my permit all the "what if's" got answered. My instructor was very good at pointing out that most people react so poorly when put into a life threatning situation. Between the fear and all that is going on around the enviorment most freeze. It was then I knew I had to take the education and sharpen my skills on a regular basis. Self defense is much more than pulling your gun or weapon and using it. I hope and pray I never have to ever pull my firearm and use it in self defense. I am sure we all think the same way. One of the reasons I shoot at the range 2-3 times a month and practice more than just standing there and shooting at a target. I practice those "what if's". Just my 2 cents worth....

  8. #47
    Interesting that this thread is still alive.

    Speaking of being afraid of civilians... The only time I got upset during my defensive handgun training was when one person discharged their weapon TWICE when we were supposed to be unloaded. It was a dry-fire exercise and their weapon was pointed safely down range, but still...I started growling pretty loudly as I was now not feeling comfortable at all with this person around. The range master did, at that point, order an instructor to take that person's weapon from them. Fine, as far as it goes, but they couldn't take the person's CCW permit, so as far as I know, they're still carrying. Yikes....

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Captvideo View Post
    Even a cop would call for backup outside so it would most likely be a mistake to 'play cop' inside by yourself.
    I think main stream media has corrupted this idea by use of theaters, and movies. Where the officer retreats to his vehicle and when the bad guy comes out the place is surrounded.

    This is a moral question, and indeed a legal question. People coming in to a place where i'm shopping are criminals. Should they be wielding a firearm they are placing myself and others in imminent jeopardy of death or great bodily harm whilst committing a violent felony and you're own morals and local codes will have to guide you.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Goldsboro, NC USA
    Quote Originally Posted by HootmonSccy View Post
    Also - remember that a Criminal trial and a Civil trial do not work on the same weights and measures..
    As with OJ.. He was found innocent of murder (Criminal)
    But then he was sued by his ex wife's family and they won.. (Civil)

    In Criminal cases, the weight is "Beyond a reasonable doubt" (90+% Sure)
    In Civil it's "Preponderance of the evidence" (51% Sure)

    So the Jury in your criminal case may say, hey we are 75% sure you did the wrong thing, and let you off...
    But in a civil Trial, that same 75% will cost you millions of dollars..

    You can safely know that if you do have to shoot someone the question is not if you will get sued, the question is for how much. There's always a scumbag lawyer willing to play the lawsuit lottery on behalf of some close relative of the dear deceased.

    "If it is time to bury your guns, then it is time to dig them up!"

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Eastern North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by NCjones View Post
    You can safely know that if you do have to shoot someone the question is not if you will get sued, the question is for how much. There's always a scumbag lawyer willing to play the lawsuit lottery on behalf of some close relative of the dear deceased.
    While I still feel in my gut that you are probably correct, another thread recently posted various state statutes that clearly state if it was a justifable shoot (you were not found guilty of a criminal act), you are protected from civil suits.

    Ayoob has often stated tht yes, you will be sued, regardless, and even my CCW instructor repeated the same statement.


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