OK, You have a CCW. When NOT to use it?
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Thread: OK, You have a CCW. When NOT to use it?

  1. OK, You have a CCW. When NOT to use it?

    I was thinking today; you have a CCW, you carry legally and you are proficient with your firearm.

    Now, what situation or situations would arise that would you make you think twice about drawing your weapon? I know we practice and are ready, but when would you be better off holding off on bearing?

  2.   
  3. I have learned that one who is licensed to carry must have as much, or more resolve in their head as they do in being proficient with their firearm. I wouldn't bear if I were just mad, or expecially in most 'third party' situations. If I were in the back of a convience store and two guys entered with the intentions or rob the place and pulled a weapon, and I was carrying, what should I do? I think that 'pre-thinking' is on order here but I wouldn't have much choice if one of them came towards me with a weapon and obviously were going to us it. So, in short, it depends.
    I've been told by professionals that it is better to be a good witness than to try and intervene. If possible, retreat to the back of the store, go out the back, in the bathroom, the cooler, the office, or anywhere that's out of sight of the robber(s). If they have seen you, and sometimes they scope out the place before bearing, and notice that you have gone, they will either look for you or leave quicker. If you are, say, in the bathroom calling 911, you would have the advantage if they were to come back to look for you. Do what you have to do. If you are at the front counter, back off and if confronted, say something like 'hey, I don't have anything in this', stay very still, and hold your hands up, give them your wallet if they ask for it, etc. Remember that their fear level is above their ears so don't make any sudden moves. If they start shooting people in the store, which is unlikely since they only want the money, then you must try to protect yourself. Even a cop would call for backup outside so it would most likely be a mistake to 'play cop' inside by yourself.
    In a 'third party situation, like an a parking lot, you come out of a store and see a man shoot another, how do you know that he isn't an off-duty officer, or another CCW person like you that was just confronted by deadly force? Now, if they start directing that smoke wagon at you, that's another story if you have the space and time to draw your CCW. And remember that you are responsible for all damages or deaths that would occur near or behind this person.
    You better think twice, and be mentally trained to think twice very quickly. Good question

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Sunny South Florida
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    Obviously that is a hugely subjective question, however, I think the simple guidelines of CCW give a relative answer. Of course what you should do and what you WILL do also may be very different. And of course this is only my opinion and I am certain will not be agreed upon by everyone.

    CCW is not gunslinger, psudo cop, or crazy guy. CCW is a means of self-defense if a threat comes to you. You should never go to the threat unless it is in aid to another life that is already under threat. Even if the law in your area has eliminated the DUTY of retreat, retreat should still be option one. You are not there to apprehend a bad guy.

    Many see anything beyond about 20 feet as the limit for CCW defense unless you are under direct fire. Of course, in reality, WHY would someone be shooting at you from beyond that. The major reason for using a weapon is defense in robbery or assault, both of which are close contact sports.

    Many like to practice tactical shooting but again, in CCW is it realistic? When will you ever need to advance on a target? If the target is retreating, your job is to let it retreat, that stops the threat for you and that is your ONLY purpose. Getting to and stopping the bad guy "in case" he may cause more mayhem at a future location is a police action, not a CCW action and may be called murder under many conditions.

    If you are sitting in your office and hear gunshots down the block, grabbing your gun and going to "stop the violence" is actually not an authorized act under CCW self-defense. Does that mean you are not going to do it ??? Unknown, but it is important to realize that if you do, you may be on your own in the legal sense. Again CCW is NOT psudo police power and the threat must come to you, you cannot go to the threat.

    Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately we are human and we respond to triggers to help our fellow man. (mine is a five year old girl crying "I want my mommy", seems moving heaven and earth is not too big a task to respond to that.) So if I hear a woman scream in the next alleyway and I am armed am I going to go check it out? That is making me go to the threat ... but that is where I am going to go ... but at least I will know that at that moment my role may be considered defending vigilante rather than legal protected CCW permit holder, but that is a chance likely worth taking. We are talking a potential life risk.

    But if I hear I person screaming they just took my wallet and see two thugs with guns run around the corner, am I going to draw down and yell freeze? NO! Not unless they decide to point the guns at me. There is no threat and I am not there to protect his property.

    Someone trys to drag you out of your car ... shoot them if you can. Someone jumps in and drives off with your empty car from a parking space ... watch them, get a description and call police. Popping a few rounds after them will just get you in deep trouble.

    Everything is "Imminnent threat or stopping a forcible felony". It must be happening then, it must not be retreating, and it must be happening to you or a human near you. No chasing the robbers out of the store. No getting in your car and having a gun fight during a vehicle persuit. No tactical moves down vacant hallways trying to find the bad guys after they ran into some building.

    If you want to be a cop, then become a cop, but CCW is defense only and the best defense is simply common sense!

  5. #4
    Outstanding responses folks.. Thanx for taking the time to provide examples and thoughts...

    Gulf Coast, Floriduh
    Sccy is the limit

  6. I will not draw ever.
    The only exceptions to this rule are where I am willing to spend the rest of my life in jail for killing someone...........or foreign invasion, of course.
    Last edited by Wolfling68; 07-02-2009 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Changed will to the originally intended willing, there is a difference between will spend my life in jail to willing to do so
    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #6
    I carry my firearm to protect my life or a family member. I will not intervene on behalf of anyone with a firearm 95% of the time there are to many legal and civil ramifications that follow. Here is a good read on the subject of intervention.

    I agree with everything that Evan said in this commentary. This is from his site Commentary by Evan Marshall

  8. #7
    I agree, I carry to protect my family and myself. I would think, re-think and then think again before drawing to help someone, unless their death was going to be the outcome. Discression is called for at all times.. Very hard question to answer, key is being prepaird in any surcustance. practice, practice, practice. Remaining calm results from practice.

    Metric.....

  9. #8
    Join Date
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    Indiana
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    I've long since vowed to myself that if I draw my sidearm, it will be because I've already decided that someone within reach of my senses and my sidearm deserves to die. If you're just being a prick verbally and even with a little light physical insult to me or mine, fine, you still deserve to live, and my sidearm stays in the back office.

    If you start getting violent to the point I fear your imminent attack for the purpose of inflicting grave bodily harm or death upon me or mine, here comes my revolver. He has something he needs to tell you.

    If I even present my sidearm, it will be because the threat it will be addressing is already clearly imminent.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  10. IMHO, the CCW guidelines are liberally slanted. I firmly believe if you wait and go through the length decision tree the CCW class provides, the threat will be over and someone you love may be hurt. They have conditioned us to be afraid to draw our weapons. If you act in a reasonable manner (i.e. you felt your life was in danger) in your decision to draw/fire, then I can't see a reasonably prudent jury convicting you of any crime.

    There are levels of alertness that have been defined. By the time I have gotten to Condition Red, I have already drawn a line in the sand. If that trigger (no pun intended) is set, then I am going to react in a certain way.

    I can't sit here and define when I'll draw and when I will not. I will be more inclined to draw if I am protecting my family. I will be less inclined to draw if I am by myself. But there are so many elements that would determine my readiness to draw. Time of day, feel of situation, who is with me, environment, etc... All of these would come into my decision to present with deadly force. But this decision would be made as the threat materializes, not at the moment of draw.

    Just my $0.02.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA, USA
    Posts
    733

    Thumbs up Excellent point, Cathy.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    I've long since vowed to myself that if I draw my sidearm, it will be because I've already decided that someone within reach of my senses and my sidearm deserves to die. If you're just being a prick verbally and even with a little light physical insult to me or mine, fine, you still deserve to live, and my sidearm stays in the back office.

    If you start getting violent to the point I fear your imminent attack for the purpose of inflicting grave bodily harm or death upon me or mine, here comes my revolver. He has something he needs to tell you.

    If I even present my sidearm, it will be because the threat it will be addressing is already clearly imminent.
    I think that Cathy has it spot on: You pull prepared and expecting to use the firearm immediately. If, in the second or two (or more) between drawing and firing, the bad guy decides that retreat is in order, then he will have saved his own life. If he has a contact weapon, like a bat or a knife, then simple retreat will do. If he has a firearm, I hope that he has dropped the weapon, or at the very least, does not turn around.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

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