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Thread: Scenario For Review

  1. #21
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    Hewy AZSATT: Your legal quote at the end of your recent reply, keeping in mind what is happening in this country, can be shortened considerably---"there are no constitutional rights-- only government- defined rights for everything"

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Just read Unfettered Might's post and I guess some of us, including myself will probably agree to disagree. Everything you said is correct, by the book, and makes perfect sense and is probably echoed in LEOs' manuals. It is just so totally unrelenting when it is written down. I guess what I am really saying is your first statement could or should have included a little more verbage about predetermining a lot more about the situation and its environment, with an option to calling 911. Statement 1 sounds like all hell will break loose the minute YOU see anything that YOU deem to be what it is. Many times what you see is not what is going on and there must be an "out" that does not include total conflict.
    If someone walks into a store with a mask on and a gun in their hand, as the OP put the scenario, they aren't there to get their Twinky fix, at least not legally. There is no time to be on a cell phone with 911, possibly drawing attention to myself, while someone's life potentially hangs in the balance.

    The OP deemed the scenario, I just answered the question. Clerks quite frequently get shot even when they do everything the perpetrator tells them to do, I'm not waiting to see which one that one is going to be. Once they are shot, it is too late. They are not just some person you don't know, they are someone's family. Would you prefer me to stand idly by while a member of your family is under direct threat of death when I have the means and training to save their life?

    The process I laid out is already past the determination of what is going on, I do not and have not historically made rash decisions and that given scenario wouldn't be one. I cherish human life and pray that I never have to take a life. However, by placing someone's life in peril by way of deadly force, you have forfeited your own. I stand by my convictions.

  4. Even I have thought about this scenario before, and how I would go about it were I legally allowed to carry. Simple answer, I'd shoot him.

    It's like when I read in the paper here a while back that a man robbed a McDonalds with a broken beer bottle. Were I in the store I would have beaten him senseless with a chair and pinned him until the police arrived.

    Generally people here are too afraid of legal repercussions if they defend life and property. I would not hesitate, that is one thing I have been taught in my line of work, act fast and deal with the situation as it develops, don't wait for it to unfold before you stop it going further, make sure you stop it before it has a chance to turn for the worse.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    If someone walks into a store with a mask on and a gun in their hand, as the OP put the scenario, they aren't there to get their Twinky fix, at least not legally. There is no time to be on a cell phone with 911, possibly drawing attention to myself, while someone's life potentially hangs in the balance.

    The OP deemed the scenario, I just answered the question. Clerks quite frequently get shot even when they do everything the perpetrator tells them to do, I'm not waiting to see which one that one is going to be. Once they are shot, it is too late. They are not just some person you don't know, they are someone's family. Would you prefer me to stand idly by while a member of your family is under direct threat of death when I have the means and training to save their life?

    The process I laid out is already past the determination of what is going on, I do not and have not historically made rash decisions and that given scenario wouldn't be one. I cherish human life and pray that I never have to take a life. However, by placing someone's life in peril by way of deadly force, you have forfeited your own. I stand by my convictions.
    I want to reply to this post, but seem not to have the words to do so. I completely agree!!!

  6. Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I don't know. Is someone else s money worth a deadly confrontation on my part. What if I do engage the BG and in the shoot out an innocent bystander is hit and killed. What if it is a small child. What about all the money and time I may have to spend defending myself in a civil suit even if I do win. Some things to think about. Now if he starts taking customers and clerks to the back room or he begins shooting then of course all bets are off.
    In my opinion your use common sense is sensible, IS THE MONEY WORTH IT. The justification is there to shoot, a person pulls out a weapon and points it at someone, that is THE IMMEDIATE THREAT/FEAR OF LIFE to you or to others. The TV stuff of shooting after the bad guy shoots, is for TV. All that hold it right there, drop it, freeze, is BS... Just shoot.

    Remember... the IMMEDIATE threat to life... IMMEDIATE fear of life, if that isn't present, you'll have a problem.

    Take the same situation but the person has NO mask and the gun in his waist band but makes it visible, and states give me all your money.


    I'm not familiar with the Laws of every state on deadly force.


    LE stats show that most robberies as briefly describe in this thread's scenario, the bad guy takes the money and leaves.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by gunsite View Post
    .


    LE stats show that most robberies as briefly describe in this thread's scenario, the bad guy takes the money and leaves.

    The important word in here is MOST. If i've already become statistically unlucky enough to find myself inside a store at the time of robbery, i'm thinking murphy's law as far as the BG wanting 'no witnesses'.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by djgunfan View Post
    I want to reply to this post, but seem not to have the words to do so. I completely agree!!!
    IMO, any rational human being with an ounce of compassion for a fellow human being in peril would.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical View Post
    The important word in here is MOST. If i've already become statistically unlucky enough to find myself inside a store at the time of robbery, i'm thinking murphy's law as far as the BG wanting 'no witnesses'.
    Many robberies go bad because of resisting/not complying/taking action by either owners or by-standers. Your odds greatly increase to survive a robbery by complying, those favorable odds plummet when you resist.

    Stats do not prove that resisting increases your odds to survive a robbery unharmed. I love watching a video of a store owner taking action against a robbery, it looks good, sounds good, and feels good. Each person has to realize their limitations under pressure on a moment notice, and then make a choice. Pressure changes everything, you can only default to your training, if you never had any training, you'll default to panic and confusion.

  10. #29
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    Hey gunsite: I agree totally with your last post. In the warmth and comfort of our computer rooms it is amazing how we can rid the world of all the bad guys and stop virtually every "what if" with guns ablazing. I would venture to say that very few of us have actually been involved in a "shootout" and have stopped a robbery or incident of violence with our CCWs. As much as some of us may have trained, it still is probably not enough. Personally, it would not surprise me in the least if my first actions in the middle of a really bad situation (that only involves myself(alone) or other strangers) would have more to do with my bowels than my firearm. If my family were involved, I believe my resolve and actions would be very different. Just sayin

  11. Its fun to discuss scenario, mentally knowing what to do, and what not to do, can save your life, so discussing scenarios does have its merits.

    LIFE is 10% Physical and 90% Mental, the thought process is amazing.

    If you (the Shooter) concentrates on your Mechanics and tactics... then killing someone becomes irrelevant, they're just a target, no different than a barrel, animal, or silhouette... the minute you become emotional, or bring emotions into play, you become unstable, doubts/hesitation, and then...

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