Could/should a CCW help a Police Officer? - Page 2
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Thread: Could/should a CCW help a Police Officer?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    Don't come to a party you were not invited to.

    1. When you divert the cops attention you are helping thuglies 1-4
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    2. If you act and it is only a training scenario you are screwed
    I don't think you'd be charged with anything. Although the training coordinator would definitely be out of a job.There is a reason departments don't to scenario training like this at public places.

    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    3. If you get involved with out the proper training the cop is going to be more worried about you and your health than the BG's
    I highly doubt that. I'd be concerned for you, but not more so than the BG's...I would assume you analyzed and accepted the risks, and if I lived i'd damn sure do everything possible to keep you from being charged.

    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    4. If the cop says, "Help me"...agree...do what he asks, inform him you are armed and wait for instructions.
    (the reason Marines are so effective in combat is the fact that they do what they are told and they trust their leadership...today is a good day to be a Marine)
    Implied consent....if ever you see me in uniform being shot at by 4 guys you have my official "help me" request.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  2.   
  3. Officers saved by citizens.

    Herald-Tribune, Sarasota, FL
    Driving to work one morning, Jim Povia, of Sarasota, Florida, saw a state trooper with his service pistol drawn, confronting a trio of male suspects during a traffic stop. Povia, a right-to-carry permit holder, pulled over and grabbed his .40 cal. pistol and went to the aid of the officer. The two held the men until backup arrived. The driver of the vehicle was driving with a suspended license and a gun was found in the rear of the vehicle. The three men were charged with felony weapons possession.
    The Post, Houston, TX
    In the finest tradition of armed citizens who take on crime in their communities, Texan Travis Neel helped save a wounded Harris County deputy sheriff's life. Witnessing the shooting by one of a trio of Houston gang members after a traffic stop just west of Houston, Neel--who was on his way to his pistol range--pulled his gun and fired, driving the officer's assailants away. An off-duty sheriff's deputy also came on the scene and joined Neel in covering the deputy, whose life was saved by his body armor. The trio was captured after a manhunt.

    The Bulletin, Norwich, CT

    While the situation ended without incident, armed citizen Michael Acree stood ready to lend a hand when a police officer stopped a carload of unruly teenagers outside his Salem, Connecticut, home. Noticing the youths scuffling with the officer, Acree retrieved his pistol and went out onto his lawn. When the youths saw Acree and his handgun, they calmed down and the situation ended peaceably. Acree earned the appreciation both of town officials and the officer.
    The Daily Commercial, Leesburg, FL
    Vincent McCarthy wasn't afraid to lend a hand when he noticed a police officer struggling with a man and woman at the side of the road. He tried to help subdue the man who was kicking the officer in the face. Despite McCarthy's warnings, when the man pressed his assault, the tour boat captain shot him once in the leg with a pistol he is licensed to carry and stopped the attack. Neither the officer nor McCarthy were seriously injured.

    The Observer, Charlotte, NC

    A North Myrtle Beach, N.C., citizen was credited by the city's public safety director with possibly saving the life of Police Officer Richard Jernick. Jernick had pulled over a suspected bank robber's car after a chase, when the suspect charged the cruiser and pointed a gun at the officer, who was still behind the wheel. At that point authorities said, the robbery suspect saw that James Beach, a semi-retired electrician who had joined the pursuit, had a pistol pointed at him. Startled, the robber ran for his car, and Officer Jernick was able to shoot and wound him.

    The Star-Banner, Ocala, FL

    When a drug-trafficking suspect fleeing a state police traffic stop ran through an Ocala, Fla., campground, he was spotted by the manager. Leonard Hicks armed himself and held the man at gunpoint for pursuing officers. An officer later commented, We wouldn't have caught the suspect if it hadn't been for him.

    The Valley Daily News, Renton, WA

    The armed man who intended to rob a Renton, Wash., gunshop should have been forewarned by the police cruiser he had to walk past to enter the store, and the uniformed officer standing just inside the door. Belatedly noticing the policeman, the would-be robber began shooting at him. The officer and a store clerk armed with a semi-auto pistol returned fire, fatally wounding the man.
    The Press-Herald, Minden, LA
    During a drug arrest in Webster Parish, La., a sheriff's deputy and a state trooper found themselves struggling with their two suspects. But four citizens observed the battle and, armed with shotguns, they came to the officers' aid--enabling them to make the arrests.

    The Chronicle, San Francisco, CA
    Dave Storton, a San Jose, Calif., police officer, was doing off-duty security work at an apartment complex when two burglars knocked the officer down and attempted to grab his revolver. During the struggle, one of the assailants bit off part of Storton's ear, but the two attackers were run off by an apartment resident who came to the rescue, armed with a shotgun.
    The Daily Oklahoman, Oklahoma City, OK
    Miami, Okla., motel owner Oba Edwards witnessed two policemen struggling with a man they were attempting to arrest and saw the man wrest away one officer's revolver, shoot and kill him. Edwards armed himself and fired a shot that allowed the remaining officer to recover his partner's revolver and fatally wound the attacker. The dead man was on probation for assault of a Texas police officer.
    The Morning Herald, Hagerstown, MD
    Police officer Chris Haldeman entered a Chambersburg, PA gold and silver exchange to arrest a suspect in a stolen property case, but the man resisted and a struggle ensued. The 220-lb. suspect had Haldeman pinned to the ground and was choking him when storekeeper Ken Cummings pulled his pistol and shot the officer's attacker in the leg. The man, a known felon, managed to escape, and Det. Haldeman was treated at a local hospital and released.

    The Morning News, Dallas, TX
    A stolen car bearing three escaped convicts was stopped on a Kansas highway by a state trooper. When the officer ordered the men from the vehicle, they sped away. With the trooper in pursuit, the escapees crashed in the town of Gorham; two were captured as they crawled free of the wreckage. The third convict attempted to flee on foot, only to be collared by several onlookers who had secured rifles from their pickups at the trooper's call for assistance.

    The Times-Tribune, Corbin, KY

    Corbin, Ky., motel operator Ray Miracle came upon state trooper James Phelps attempting to subdue two drunken occupants of a stopped auto and, carrying his revolver, went to the officer's aid. At that point, another car stopped and one of two men inside levelled a gun on Trooper Phelps. Seeing Miracle's drawn gun, however, they hastily drove off. Kentucky State Police rewarded Miracle with their highest civilian honor.

    The Post, Houston, TX

    Ralph Festavan watched as a heroin peddler attacked a Shreveport, La., policeman and grabbed the officer's gun. Festavan ran to the patrol car parked nearby and got a shotgun with which he shot and killed the pusher.
    The Times-Union, Rochester, NY
    Dennis Koch was putting storm windows on his fiancee's house when he observed a youth run into nearby woods. He passed the information on to a police officer who stopped by minutes later and told Koch he was searching for a burglary suspect. He gave Koch permission to assist him. Carrying his pistol, for which he has a permit, Koch found the youth hiding and held him in custody until the officer could place him under arrest.

    The Memphis Press-Scimitar, Memphis, TN
    A Missouri state trooper had been shot three times by two armed robbery suspects when armed citizen Robert Riley of Tiptonville, Tenn., rushed to his aid. Riley fired a small caliber pistol at the assailants until they surrendered. The law officer was then rushed to a hospital.

    Inland Valley Daily Bulletin, Ontario, CA
    Inland Valley, California, Humane Society officer Amy Murillo, 27, was responding to a local resident's pleas when she attempted to call off a vicious dog. But the animal turned on Murillo, jumping at her and causing her to fall against her vehicle. She suffered several bites to the head and chest from the crazed animal. Witnessing the young officer's plight, the resident who had summoned her help returned the favor by running to his house and retrieving a handgun. The dog then turned on the man who shot twice, killing it.

    The Daily Facts, Redlands, CA
    Redlands, California, sheriff's deputies credited an armed citizen with helping them capture four men and two juveniles who had just robbed a convenience store and pointed a gun at a plain clothes police officer as they made their initial getaway. Following a short chase all the suspects were captured. “One of the guys was detained at gunpoint by a resident who really helped us," Sheriff's Sgt. Bobby Phillips said. "He kept him there on the ground until we got there."

    The Review Courier, Alva, OK
    Things had turned ugly for Oklahoma Highway Patrol Officer Rick Wallace. He had found marijuana on a speeder, but was overpowered by the man before he could cuff him. Passerby Adolph Krejsek witnessed the altercation and came to the rescue, using his own firearm to help the trooper control the suspect. After helping subdue the assailant, Krejsek used the injured trooper's radio to call for help.

    Associated Press, IN

    In Indianapolis 17-year-old Gerald Watson stood near a policeman who questioned a robbery suspect when the suspect's accomplice appeared on the scene and shot the officer down. Watson, who had taught marksmanship at the YMCA, grabbed the fallen policeman's service revolver and shot the felon dead.
    UPI, AL
    In Saraland, Ala., the berserk husband of a woman charged with possession of illegal whisky killed one police officer and wounded another but, as he tried to make his escape, was shot dead by Carlos McDonald, the proprietor of a nearby shop.

    UPI, AL
    Two gunmen kidnapped an Eclectic, Ala., town policeman and used the officer to gain admittance to the home of Carl Ray Barker in the early morning hours. Barker, an Eclectic banker, was taken by one gunman into town to open the bank's vault, his wife, child, and the town policeman being held hostage by the armed companion pending a safe return from the bank. When the time-vault resisted opening, the gunman returned Barker to his house and, after some debate, took the policeman away with him to get tape for binding all hostages until morning, when another attempt was to be made on the vault. Barker, now held in his home with wife and child by the second armed man, asked if he could make coffee. The robber assented and Barker put water on the stove and got it boiling. "I took the scalding water to the living room," said Barker. "When he held his cup, I just poured the water in his face and grabbed his gun." Barker pistol-whipped the robber into submission, loaded a shotgun and waited for the return of the other bandit. When the door opened, the captive policeman dived out of the way and Barker killed the would-be bank robber with two blasts. Barker said he feared for his family's safety and, "I didn't want my bank to get a bad name about being robbed."


    Examples of armed citizens coming to the aid of officers in peril
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  4. #13
    I would have to say that I would observe until asked to help in just a gunfight. Maybe he and the BG's exchange a few volleys and the BG's flee, making it not necessary for me to assume the risk of liability for blasting one of them. If the situation permitted, I might yell to the LEO that I am an armed citizen with a CHP and see if he sent an invitation. If it is obvious that he is being "gunned down" then I'd jump in regardless to prevent his death or SBI.

    It's really hard to answer "what if's" without actually being there as the situation unfolding would dictate.





    Driving to work one morning, Jim Povia, of Sarasota, Florida, saw a state trooper with his service pistol drawn, confronting a trio of male suspects during a traffic stop. Povia, a right-to-carry permit holder, pulled over and grabbed his .40 cal. pistol and went to the aid of the officer. The two held the men until backup arrived. The driver of the vehicle was driving with a suspended license and a gun was found in the rear of the vehicle. The three men were charged with felony weapons possession.
    This situation seems a bit on the "poking-you-nose-where-it-doesn't-belong" category. Unless I thought the officer was in distress, I'd wouldn't jump out and try to help. Maybe he had the situation under control, and now some yahoo with a gun rolls up and volunteers. The cop doesn't know if you are the BG's brother, a nut on the loose, an off duty cop, or just a medling citizen. If there was a struggle going on, that would be different.




    .
    In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man -- brave, hated, and scorned. But when his cause succeeds, the timid join him. For then, it costs nothing to be a patriot. -- Mark Twain

  5. Quote Originally Posted by RugerP345 View Post
    This situation seems a bit on the "poking-you-nose-where-it-doesn't-belong" category. Unless I thought the officer was in distress, I'd wouldn't jump out and try to help. Maybe he had the situation under control, and now some yahoo with a gun rolls up and volunteers. The cop doesn't know if you are the BG's brother, a nut on the loose, an off duty cop, or just a medling citizen. If there was a struggle going on, that would be different.

    .
    I agree- I had to re-read it to see if I missed something. That one I agree probably would have been better to watch from a distance until another LEO arrived, and if something happened take action...
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RugerP345 View Post


    This situation seems a bit on the "poking-you-nose-where-it-doesn't-belong" category.
    .

    Like this one?

    A North Myrtle Beach, N.C., citizen was credited by the city's public safety director with possibly saving the life of Police Officer Richard Jernick. Jernick had pulled over a suspected bank robber's car after a chase, when the suspect charged the cruiser and pointed a gun at the officer, who was still behind the wheel. At that point authorities said, the robbery suspect saw that James Beach, a semi-retired electrician who had joined the pursuit, had a pistol pointed at him. Startled, the robber ran for his car, and Officer Jernick was able to shoot and wound him.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    Don't come to a party you were not invited to.

    1. When you divert the cops attention you are helping thuglies 1-4

    2. If you act and it is only a training scenario you are screwed

    3. If you get involved with out the proper training the cop is going to be more worried about you and your health than the BG's

    4. If the cop says, "Help me"...agree...do what he asks, inform him you are armed and wait for instructions.
    (the reason Marines are so effective in combat is the fact that they do what they are told and they trust their leadership...today is a good day to be a Marine)

    5. by all means give aid to any wounded and escort bystanders to safety get the crowd out of the area...the biggest help you can give an LEO is not getting in his/her way.
    1. If the cop is under fire and the bad guy gets shot, he will be glad, and will quickly return his attention to the other bad guys.

    2. If the police are having a live fire training exercise in a public place with the public present, they have committed multiple errors. I can't say it would never happen, but it would be incredibly stupid if they did this.
    3. If the cop is under fire, that is what he is going to be worrying most about. Period.

    4. Pretty good advice for the most part.

    5. Also good advice.

    I do not mean to denigrate your opinions on this, I assume that you are a cop, but I also base my opinions on 23 years as a cop, police trainer, supervisor etc. I would not blindly recommend that anyone present who happened to be armed intervene, but if you are comfortable with your level of skill and or training, then i would not discourage one to do so. As I said, if I were present, I would feel very comfortable with taking action in assisting the besieged officer.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargespd View Post
    2. If the police are having a live fire training exercise in a public place with the public present, they have committed multiple errors. I can't say it would never happen, but it would be incredibly stupid if they did this.
    I don't see this as something that would ever happen here in my town in Nevada, or from where I hail in southern California. Is this something that happens where you reside?

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    Like this one?
    SITUATION No. 1:
    Driving to work one morning, Jim Povia, of Sarasota, Florida, saw a state trooper with his service pistol drawn, confronting a trio of male suspects during a traffic stop. Povia, a right-to-carry permit holder, pulled over and grabbed his .40 cal. pistol and went to the aid of the officer. The two held the men until backup arrived. The driver of the vehicle was driving with a suspended license and a gun was found in the rear of the vehicle. The three men were charged with felony weapons possession.

    SITUATION No. 2:
    North Myrtle Beach, N.C., citizen was credited by the city's public safety director with possibly saving the life of Police Officer Richard Jernick. Jernick had pulled over a suspected bank robber's car after a chase, when the suspect charged the cruiser and pointed a gun at the officer, who was still behind the wheel. At that point authorities said, the robbery suspect saw that James Beach, a semi-retired electrician who had joined the pursuit, had a pistol pointed at him. Startled, the robber ran for his car, and Officer Jernick was able to shoot and wound him.

    Situation #2 is a little different ..."the suspect charged the cruiser and pointed a gun at the officer, who was still behind the wheel". In this case, the officers life was in imminent danger. In the first example, the officer is going about regular business. Your scenario in the first incident did not indicate that the officer was in any imminent danger, simply that he had the suspects at gunpoint. In the second scenario the officer is being "charged" (attacked) and the suspect is pointing a gun at the officer. who is in a position of vulnerability (still seated).

    If you can't see the difference between a BG sitting in a vehicle with a gun in the rear Vs. a badguy charging you with a gun pointed at you then I recommend a refresher course.




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    In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man -- brave, hated, and scorned. But when his cause succeeds, the timid join him. For then, it costs nothing to be a patriot. -- Mark Twain

  10. #19
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    [QUOTE=gdcleanfun;104704]I don't see this as something that would ever happen here in my town in Nevada, or from where I hail in southern California. Is this something that happens where you reside?[/QUOTE

    Absolutely not.

  11. #20
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    [quote=sargespd;104720]
    Quote Originally Posted by gdcleanfun View Post
    I don't see this as something that would ever happen here in my town in Nevada, or from where I hail in southern California. Is this something that happens where you reside?[/QUOTE

    Absolutely not.
    If it's not something that happens in your "neck of the woods," then I'm really curious as to why you posted it?

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