1st gun, Home Defense, 12 Gauge or Handgun? - Page 6
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Thread: 1st gun, Home Defense, 12 Gauge or Handgun?

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    texas AND virginia
    Posts
    66
    to all,

    as an old/retired lawman (getting older every day!) i PREFER a short-barrelled, 12 guage shotgun, loaded with #4Buck for home/farm defense, though i carry a P6, concealed, 24/365.

    in the DARK (which is when MOST home invasions happen!) a handgun of any sort is nearly worth-LESS, as you cannot SEE the sights. - otoh, at "in house ranges" i will NOT miss a criminal with a load of #4 Buckshot.

    mine happens to be an OLD "sawed off" Fox double with 18" barrels, that i paid 75.oo for about 25 years ago. - it shoots EVERY time & is my trusted PICKUP GUN.

    yours, TN46

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  3. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,429

    Oldwest outlaw, and founder of the wild bunch gang Bill Doolin after a losing encounter with a Deputy US Marshal's shotgun
    A picture says a thousand words.

    As usual the topic has morphed this way and that from the OP.

    If, I had to choose only one firearm, it would be a 12 gauge pump.
    With two barrels one long, smooth, and choked. The other open cylinder I can take small and large game. Entertainment with skeet, or trap.
    Several rounds of shot available. More if get tube extenders.

    Simplicity, or;
    Customization options are many. Lights, lasers, extenders, slides stocks. MPV3 adaptors. You name it.
    I can use a huge variety of projectiles, and loads.

    Against two legged varmints none better
    Home defense-there is simply none equaled.
    Keep it clean, and lightly oiled it will work when required.
    I have a quick remove loose cloth covering over mine.
    I keep mine in patrol car mode. Four rounds in the tube. Safety off. Trigger has been tripped. All I do is rack a round and pull trigger when needed. I have a masking tape marker on slide to show condition.
    I prefer buck, 00, or #4.
    I understand some swat entry teams use lowbase #8 birdshot
    I have tried that on the range against water jugs at 21 feet. Very effective. I may switch to that because of over penetration concerns.
    Listen to all the opinions here, then go to the gun shop and buy at least five firearms.

  4. Iceman,
    My first round up is a hi-brass #6, the rest are #1 Buck (all 2 3/4", 3" hulls are a waste in this application and they cut down on mag capacity). Depending on which #1 Buckshot load you get, you are talking about 16 (unplated Winchester and Remington) to 20 (plated Federal) .30 caliber round balls coming out of the muzzle every time you squeeze the trigger. 00 Buckshot is .32 caliber and the most you can get in a 2 3/4" hull is 9. With the slightly smaller diameter, the #1's have less weight (mass) and should over penetrate less since they are traveling at roughly the same velocity. Besides, mo' is always mo' bettuh. I'll take 16 to 20 .30's over 8 or 9 .32's all day, any day.

  5. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    texas AND virginia
    Posts
    66
    itg452,

    the #4Buck, 2 3/4", 12 guage, shells have 27 pellets. out of my shotgun at 15 yards, i get a 36-40" (nearly round) pattern.

    #4 buck does NOT usually penetrate BOTH sides of interior home walls, with enough remaining velocity to cause serious injury or death.
    otoh, #4 Buck will "ruin your whole night", if you get hit with a few of those "blue whizzers".

    yours, TN46

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by texasnative46 View Post
    to all,

    as an old/retired lawman (getting older every day!) i PREFER a short-barrelled, 12 guage shotgun, loaded with #4Buck for home/farm defense, though i carry a P6, concealed, 24/365.

    in the DARK (which is when MOST home invasions happen!) a handgun of any sort is nearly worth-LESS, as you cannot SEE the sights. - otoh, at "in house ranges" i will NOT miss a criminal with a load of #4 Buckshot.

    mine happens to be an OLD "sawed off" Fox double with 18" barrels, that i paid 75.oo for about 25 years ago. - it shoots EVERY time & is my trusted PICKUP GUN.

    yours, TN46
    Actually I can see the sights on my HK real well in the dark due to them being night sights. As far as distance is concerned, in my house I will not miss with my had gun either. If however things go south in a hurry and I need more fire power I still have my shot gun as well as a number of other choices.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  7. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina/Charleston
    Posts
    2,388
    New England Firearms, which is now owned by Remington who bought out Marlin who bought out H&K, who owned New England (got that?) make a Pardner Pump Protector which is an almost exact knockoff of an 18.5 inch Remington pump. I actually downloaded the 870 manual so I could be sure of the breakdown and cleaning of the New England model. You can get one for under $200. I have one and I have no problems practicing with it w/o any issues. For a firearm you probably will never use, it is a good buy IMO.
    After I bought the shotgun, the Taurus Judge came out and they make quite a few varieties of it--nice combo of 410shot and 45 but a great all in one home defense gun that is at least easy to keep handy (never shot one so cannot tell you about that but I'm sure you can get reviews galore from internet and this site). May be a few bucks more but you are getting 2 guns (at least the 2 calibres).

  8. #57
    my house gun is a mossberg 500a1 with winchester ranger 00 buckshot ready to go, my moss was only 270 with tax, but that was 3 years ago. great shotgun. also carry a s&w model M&P in .40 cal. my smith was 500 new. good luck, id go with the shotgun if its for the home only. pistol if you want to shoot alot or go ccw like myself.........

  9. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    texas AND virginia
    Posts
    66
    HK4U; all,

    SORRY, but there is an "under stress" USMS study that indicates that "night sights" are "not significantly better" than regular sights in "near or full black darkness", though those sights are better than nothing in "low light situations".

    "firing under combat stress" is FAR from the same situation than "simulated fire", on a range is, even under "low light conditions".

    that's WHY i trust the 12 guage over ANY handgun, in an ACTUAL "exchange of fires" at night. = my partner, of several years (Larry H__________) & one of "the best shots" that i know, got into a SHOOTOUT in an darkened ICEHOUSE (remember those?), with TWO people, about 15 years ago. - he was reduced to shooting "in the general direction of " the BG by firing AT where he THOUGHT the shooters were.

    i do NOT believe that he would have had difficulty hitting BOTH of them with his Remington Stainless Marine 12guage pump, instead of the Colt's Government Model, in .36Super ACP & a S&W Model 64 snubnose that he HAD.

    just my OPINION.

    yours, TN46

  10. #59
    I]I agree if hitting the target is the only consideration then the shotgun wins hands down. In a home invasion however there are a couple factors that can come into play that for me makes the handgun the weapon of choice. First of all it is of course preferable to stay in your bedroom or safe room. This may not always be an option. If you have loved ones in other rooms I doubt if most of us are going to stay put. If I have to go from room to room clearing the house it is less likely that I would have my gun grabbed with a handgun held in close in the high ready position than any long gun. Second if the BG is holding on to a member of my family with a knife or gun I feel fairly positive that I can deliver a head shot to him with my handgun at the close range that I would encounter in my house. I am sure as heck not going to pull the trigger on my 12 gauge while he is holding them though. So again although I consider the shotgun an important part of my defensive arsenal it may not be the first weapon I reach for in a home invasion. Just my 2 cents worth. [/I]
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. My first 1200 rounds will come from my AR-15 ( I have kids so my wife gives me grief if I try to keep more than 40 mags loaded in the house). If I run out of ammo and need to continue shooting I will reach for my M+P 9. Then I reach for my Mossberg 500, Then, my KA-BAR.
    Retired US Army Medic
    Proud Husband, Dad and Christian
    www.nationofshooters.com

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